STT step experiment

stormswa

stormswa

Legend
ok so this dude on this other forum thought this idea up but its pretty similar to the step tourney thing that party poker used to have. The OP on the other site stopped at step 4 so I expaned it to 11 steps.


step 1 : play $5 STT and if you win move to step 2

step 2: play $10 STT if you dont cash move down to step 1, if you cash repeat step 2 and if you win move to step 3

step 3: play $20 STT if you dont cash move down to step 2, if you cash repeat step 3 and if you win move to step 4

step 4: play $30 STT if you dont cash move down to step 3, if you cash reapeat step 4 and if you win move to step 5

step 5: play $50 STT if you dont cash move down to step 4, if you cash repeat step 5 and if you win move to step 6

step 6: play a $100 STT if you dont cash move down to step 5, if you cash repeat step 6 and if you win move to step 7

step 7: play a $200 STT if you dont cash move down to step 6, if you cash repeat step 7 and if you win move up to step 8

step 8: play a $300 STT if you dont cash move down to step 7, if you cash repeat step 8 and if you win move up to step 9

step 9: play a $500 STT if you dont cash move down to step 7, if you cash repeat step 8 and if you win move up to step 10

step 10: play a $1000 STT if you dont cash move down to step 9, if you cash repeat step 10 and if you win move up to step 11

step 11: play a $2000 STT if you dont cash move down to step 10, if you cash repeat step 11 and if you win be happy as hell because you just made $9,000 off a $5 investment.



of course you can stop at any step you wish.
 
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skoldpadda

skoldpadda

Caveman Eye Surgeon
Awards
2
I thought step one was to cut a hole in the box.

Sounds like a fun experiment.
 
L

lesclaypool6

Guest
This sounds like a great idea.. and I will be trying it. It's similar to rampaging but is much more safe and probably more profitable. You won't be using all of your previous prize money for your next buy-in, so any advancement in the "staircase" will generate profit.

Storm, if you are going to do this, can ya let us know of your progress please?
 
smd173

smd173

Cardschat Elite
step 11: play a $2000 STT if you dont cash move down to step 10, if you cash repeat step 11 and if you win be happy as hell because you just made $9,000 off a $5 investment.

Didn't Noble used to offer some prize like a $1 Million if you could win 7 straight STT's? They wouldn't have offered that if it was damn near impossible.

Granted this process doesn't require 7 straight wins, but it does require alot of luck to go along with your skills.
 
stormswa

stormswa

Legend
Didn't Noble used to offer some prize like a $1 Million if you could win 7 straight STT's? They wouldn't have offered that if it was damn near impossible.

Granted this process doesn't require 7 straight wins, but it does require alot of luck to go along with your skills.


trust me im not suggesting this is easy, and not saying you have to win 7 straight. Look it over again if you cash you play the same level if you dont you drop down a level. I played the party steps and enjoyed them a lot.

This is something that can teach you how to play STT better and you will get to try some big STT for little invested.
 
pigpen02

pigpen02

Legend
Stupid mathematics bites us again.

There is a reason the prior person did not carry it out to 11 steps. Assume Joe is an above average player (and EVERYBODY thinks they are above average). This above average Joe can actually place in the top four EVERY time. (Hmmm. Really MUCH above average, isn't he?) So, in four games 25% of the time he takes first money and progresses, 50% wins second or third, 25% drops down a level. It is hard to find a STT above $100, so lets go to level 6 only. Joe will win his $450 less $110, or $340 on his 2907th game (on average). At an hour/tournament, Joe has spent a year straight playing poker 8 hours a day. We will have to neglect the 26.8% of the time he busted out at a $5 tournament level. However, Average Joe does make $11.50 a tournament average.

If we carry this out to 11 steps, assuming you can get high dollar tournament whenever you want, it will take 342 years to finally win that top dollar and start all over again.:deal:
 
stormswa

stormswa

Legend
There is a reason the prior person did not carry it out to 11 steps. Assume Joe is an above average player (and EVERYBODY thinks they are above average). This above average Joe can actually place in the top four EVERY time. (Hmmm. Really MUCH above average, isn't he?) So, in four games 25% of the time he takes first money and progresses, 50% wins second or third, 25% drops down a level. It is hard to find a STT above $100, so lets go to level 6 only. Joe will win his $450 less $110, or $340 on his 2907th game (on average). At an hour/tournament, Joe has spent a year straight playing poker 8 hours a day. We will have to neglect the 26.8% of the time he busted out at a $5 tournament level. However, Average Joe does make $11.50 a tournament average.

If we carry this out to 11 steps, assuming you can get high dollar tournament whenever you want, it will take 342 years to finally win that top dollar and start all over again.:deal:


actully the reason he stopped at level 4 is he only wanted to win 1k, and this is very doable in less then 345 years. I know people that played the step tourneys at party and made it to the final step. If people were not making it to last step there party would of stopped them.

everytime you cash at whatever level you bank money regardless. and there are people that make a lot of money playing STT. zeejustin is the 1st one that comes to mind. Our goal is not to make it to the last step but to see how far we can go and of course if the money gets too much you just simply stop. You get a lot of experience at levels you may not be ready for with very little risk since you are using pure profit. So our goal is to play and learn. Think of it this way you make it to a step 4 with a bankroll of $100, you were bankrolled and playing $5 STT anyway so now you got the experience of playing $20 STT which gives you a head start for when you are finally bankrolled for that level.
 
Goldog

Goldog

Rock Star
Party's steps were fun but the rake could eat you up. Also there was reportedly some collusion at the higher levels. Russians i think.

Self structured steps can work out better. When you get to a level you're uncomfortable with you can drop down or just hang at that level til you get a good feel for it.

Goldog
 
stormswa

stormswa

Legend
Party's steps were fun but the rake could eat you up. Also there was reportedly some collusion at the higher levels. Russians i think.

Self structured steps can work out better. When you get to a level you're uncomfortable with you can drop down or just hang at that level til you get a good feel for it.

Goldog


agreed, Like I already said the goal of this is to get experience in games you are not playing yet. I know I myself have never done $100 STT but would love to get to try them out with very little risk to my bankroll. Hell if I can get to play one by pure profit that would be great.
 
pigpen02

pigpen02

Legend
Go for it if you want, I was just pointing out that you don't just jump up to level 5 or 6 in a few tournaments. In my example, Joe went up a level in an average of once in four tournaments, but down once in four tournaments. The progression says on AVERAGE Joe will take a year to win level 6. And Joe really was above average to have placed no lower than fourth ever.

You can figure how many people had to enter the bottom of Party's pyramid for one person to come out at the top and it is a lot.
 
stormswa

stormswa

Legend
Go for it if you want, I was just pointing out that you don't just jump up to level 5 or 6 in a few tournaments. In my example, Joe went up a level in an average of once in four tournaments, but down once in four tournaments. The progression says on AVERAGE Joe will take a year to win level 6. And Joe really was above average to have placed no lower than fourth ever.

You can figure how many people had to enter the bottom of Party's pyramid for one person to come out at the top and it is a lot.


again this is about experience more then results.
 
B

bw07507

Legend
This looks very interesting storm, I might have to try it out a little bit, however I cant see myself ever even trying to go for anything past step 5. I have one question though, what kind of bankroll do u think you would need to try this out? Would being properly rolled for 5 dollar SnGs be enough?
 
stormswa

stormswa

Legend
This looks very interesting storm, I might have to try it out a little bit, however I cant see myself ever even trying to go for anything past step 5. I have one question though, what kind of bankroll do u think you would need to try this out? Would being properly rolled for 5 dollar SnGs be enough?


YES,

remember you are playing with pure profit past step 1.
 
B

bw07507

Legend
YES,

remember you are playing with pure profit past step 1.

Yes I see what u mean, I am definately going to be trying this out. I am pretty nicely rolled for 5.50 STTs with 150 dollars. I am always looking for interesting things to try as I get bored fairly easily just grinding out STTs and 10max all day.
 
stormswa

stormswa

Legend
Vegas and poker sites LOVE people with a system.


its not a system to get rich dude, its a way to get experience playing high levels with NO RISK TO YOU. Is that that part you dont get?

here you go I will expain it for you.

win the $5 STT you bank $22.50 and you play $11 STT, and lose you profit $10.50 and you drop down a level. If you stick to the chart there is zero risk to you besides losing a $5 STT. If you continue to drop down when you lose then you will not lose money in this.

imagine if you are a $5 STT player and you make it to level 3 even, you get experience playing at that level with no money from your bankroll since you are just playing with your profits.

It is pretty IMPOSSIBLE to make it all the way to the end of this, but that is not our goal here. Our goal is to give players experience playing out of their comfort zone with again ZERO RISK.
 
pigpen02

pigpen02

Legend
There is no such thing as a free lunch. Assume you can play $5 STTs and win enough to make a small profit, say an average of $2 per tournament. This means you place 1, 2, 3, >3, >3, >3 of 6 entries. Now, if you take $11 from a win and play a $10 STT. There is a 50% probablity you will drop back on the first tournament. You can say there is "NO RISK TO YOU", but your bankroll is $11 smaller. If you have a better average that I used, you could be playing at higher level anyway. No matter where the entry fee seems to come from, it is from your pocket in the end.
 
stormswa

stormswa

Legend
There is no such thing as a free lunch. Assume you can play $5 STTs and win enough to make a small profit, say an average of $2 per tournament. This means you place 1, 2, 3, >3, >3, >3 of 6 entries. Now, if you take $11 from a win and play a $10 STT. There is a 50% probablity you will drop back on the first tournament. You can say there is "NO RISK TO YOU", but your bankroll is $11 smaller. If you have a better average that I used, you could be playing at higher level anyway. No matter where the entry fee seems to come from, it is from your pocket in the end.


yes I realize that its still money from your total bankroll but its also pure profit from you $5 MTT win. I dont understand why you are making your numbers so confusing though?

ok lets put it this way,

you play $5 mtt and win now you have $22.50 and move up to $11 STT and get 2nd and thats good for $27 and you have to replay that level now. So far you have spent $17 in buy ins and banked $49.50 and that would leave you with profit of $32.50. remember so far you have only invested $5 regardless of what you have made, ok so you replay level and lose so you drop down to level 1. so far you made 22.50 and you are back where you started with actul profit. Again no one is saying you have to continue playing, you make it to level 3 and you can stop.

there really is zero risk since after level 1 you are playing with pure profit, I explained this as good as I can. You are set on your ways and if you believe it is a bad idea you are in a minority since I have posted this on multiple sites and you are honestly the only one who have said anything negative about it.
 
jaymfc

jaymfc

R.I.P DJ & Buck
Awards
71
I'll probably try this ,sounds cool ,once I win I dont think of it as profit anymore , its my money , but I like it .

also like to say , wow , how calm and composed you sound , no matter if they like it or not , keep that up and we may have to pull your resident jerk status. :) jk you're cool . thanks
 
stormswa

stormswa

Legend
I'll probably try this ,sounds cool ,once I win I dont think of it as profit anymore , its my money , but I like it .

also like to say , wow , how calm and composed you sound , no matter if they like it or not , keep that up and we may have to pull your resident jerk status. :) jk you're cool . thanks


trust me by the end of the week I will say something to confirm my title.
 
Goldog

Goldog

Rock Star
I'm sold. The progression is not steep enough to do any serious damage if one is well funded for $5 SNGs. It also dawned on me that it could work out to help find your level of proficiency.

Goldog
 
L

lesclaypool6

Guest
I've been doing this the last couple of days. I am currently on the fourth level playing 6 max turbos. Here's how my progression has gone so far:

6.60 Lost
6.60 Second
6.60 Win
12.00 Second
12.00 Second
12.00 Win
24.00 Win


I'm playing a little bit above the dollar limit because FTP's 6 max turbos don't go in 10$ intervals, but I'm counting them the same. I would never be able to play 24.00$ SnGs with my bankroll, but I managed to win one doing this experiment. =P

Here's a SS:

222.jpg
 
stormswa

stormswa

Legend
I'm playing a little bit above the dollar limit because FTP's 6 max turbos don't go in 10$ intervals, but I'm counting them the same. I would never be able to play 24.00$ SnGs with my bankroll, but I managed to win one doing this experiment. =P

Here's a SS:

222.jpg

the bolded part I like the best because that is what I was trying to explain to the other poster. Nice job sir.
 
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