Stealing blinds in SNG

Killdalimper

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So I've read the CC article on SNG strategy. It says when blinds are between 100-200 stealing blinds becomes crucial. My question is that in 6-9 handed SNG everybody is basically 15-20 BBs deep when blinds reach 100-200. How are suppose to steal blinds when our stack is good for push fold only? Is there something I'm missing here?
 
TheDude6622

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You're not supposed to steal blinds every hand. It's a touch and feel game depending on the people at the table. If you see that the blinds don't really fold to raises, then it's crucial to take your time.

You may want to look at bet sizing. Try utilizing bigger bet sizes for steals.
 
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berryryan2488

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When you're at that stage of a SNG you risk being blinded out while other players are shoving collecting the blinds and antes or doubling up. Playing survival poker while waiting for a good starting hand hoping someone calls won't give you a decent chance at winning the SNG or even placing. With so few BBs left you're better off shoving in position when you act first so you can collect those blinds and antes. Even if your hand is marginal you have a better chance of doubling up by shoving and have someone call you with a better hand as opposed to being chipped away by the blinds, shoving and possibly getting knocked out.
 
Killdalimper

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You're not supposed to steal blinds every hand. It's a touch and feel game depending on the people at the table. If you see that the blinds don't really fold to raises, then it's crucial to take your time.

You may want to look at bet sizing. Try utilizing bigger bet sizes for steals.

I know that we're not supposed to steal blinds every hand. Lets say we're on BTN with 15BBs left in our stack. We get dealt KQ, do we raise 2.2x in order to steal the blinds with the given effective stack? if we get called and we miss then what? that's why Im saying you cant practically steal blinds with 15BBs , it's a shove of fold game imo. But then again I may be missing something here??
 
pentazepam

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I know that we're not supposed to steal blinds every hand. Lets say we're on BTN with 15BBs left in our stack. We get dealt KQ, do we raise 2.2x in order to steal the blinds with the given effective stack? if we get called and we miss then what? that's why Im saying you cant practically steal blinds with 15BBs , it's a shove of fold game imo. But then again I may be missing something here??

You are correct in theory, but TheDude has a point in practice (at least at lower stakes).

A lot of players over-fold or are over-aggressive when you mini-raise at lower stakes. So you can either steal with bad cards or induce an all-in with good cards. Sometimes you can even limp with a very good hand and induce or trap.

But this only applies if you can identify in what way your opponents play less than optimal and you can therefore exploit them.

If you play against players that play an almost perfect end game (you should avoid these kind of games, but sometimes the fish bust earlier and you play for the money paying places against regs) you are often correct to play all-in or fold between 10-15bb if multiple players are left to act. HU maybe you can wait to 8-10bb before all-in or fold is optimal.
 
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Veritas

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So I've read the CC article on SNG strategy. It says when blinds are between 100-200 stealing blinds becomes crucial. My question is that in 6-9 handed SNG everybody is basically 15-20 BBs deep when blinds reach 100-200. How are suppose to steal blinds when our stack is good for push fold only? Is there something I'm missing here?

well the Thing is once you reach the <20bb stage, whenever you steal blinds, you increase your stack by at least 10% (1bb + 0.5sb + ante = ~2bb).
so this becomes very important to Keep a healthy stack.
search for some push/fold Charts and learn the +EV spots for the 15-20bb range to make your shoves profitable. don't be afraid to shove wide

I know that we're not supposed to steal blinds every hand. Lets say we're on BTN with 15BBs left in our stack. We get dealt KQ, do we raise 2.2x in order to steal the blinds with the given effective stack? if we get called and we miss then what? that's why Im saying you cant practically steal blinds with 15BBs , it's a shove of fold game imo. But then again I may be missing something here??


I wouldn't mind shoving here (ignoring ICM and the bubble).


2.2 raise is also fine. if the blinds call, we Play in Position and can make a cbet.
 
Killdalimper

Killdalimper

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I wouldn't mind shoving here (ignoring ICM and the bubble).
2.2 raise is also fine. if the blinds call, we Play in Position and can make a cbet.

Alright Im still confused. If we can push our 15-20bb stack pre just as we usually do in MTT , what's the point of min raising to steal the blinds when you can simply go allin pre ?
 
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With effective stacks down to 10BB, there is still room for a mini-raise or slightly larger, which is often enough to take the blinds down. With 15BB or less you can also open jam. Jonathan Little did some videos recently on short stacked tournament strategy on Youtube.

Apparently the GTO strategy with these stack sizes is to split your range into limping / jamming or mini-raising / jamming depending on your position. Its kind of complicated, and if you want to play everything as either a jam or a mini-raise, its probably not to much of an issue, as long as you are playing micro stakes SnGs.

For me I also like to take a somewhat exploitative approach. For instance I might limp in from SB with those 15BB or so stacks, and if this induce an insta jam, my second or third limp will be a strong hand looking to call off the jam. And if not I will continue limping a wide range rather than giving BB a walk, when there are antes to fight for.
 
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fundiver199

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Alright Im still confused. If we can push our 15-20bb stack pre just as we usually do in MTT , what's the point of min raising to steal the blinds when you can simply go allin pre ?


The point is, that more hands can profitably min raise than can jam. So by using a min raising strategy, you allow yourself to steal the blinds more often. Just to take an extreme example open jamming for 100BB against good players would only be +EV with AA and maybe KK. So if you used that as your strategy, you would have to fold everything else, and you would get blinded away.
 
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Alright Im still confused. If we can push our 15-20bb stack pre just as we usually do in MTT , what's the point of min raising to steal the blinds when you can simply go allin pre ?
well that's up to you :p


some People prefer a minraise over a 20bb shove.


it could also be a sneaky Play to limp/minraise from the button or sb to induce a raise with QQ+
 
zinzir

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So I've read the CC article on SNG strategy. It says when blinds are between 100-200 stealing blinds becomes crucial. My question is that in 6-9 handed SNG everybody is basically 15-20 BBs deep when blinds reach 100-200. How are suppose to steal blinds when our stack is good for push fold only? Is there something I'm missing here?


What you are saying makes perfect sense. At 6-9 handed SNG when blinds get to 100/200 stealing blinds pretty much equals to shoving preflop if you are a short stack or putting your opponent all-in if you are the large stack. But for example the $10 freeroll at ACR is also considered a SNG and it has over 500 players consistently so the average stack is much larger when blinds are 100/200.
 
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sheltowee420

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Stealing the blinds is usually required at some point in the game, but I like to put it off as long as possible.
 
akmost

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Personally I have some open raise / folds with 15+/- blinds with some medium strength hands like 98s based on my table image.I fold if there is a massive 3 bet jam ahead.

If we are near bubble or near the final table I open my range and I attack similar stacks with 15-20bbs by open jamming , the ranges in those phases for the defending player become narrower!But still those plays are not static , you should be aware of your opponents and how they may react.

On the other hand you can mix your ranges , for example min raise your monsters with ~15bbs , it is more likely to induce some action especially if you are from early position.

Also is very profitable the blind vs blind situations which in some cases is profitable open shoving any two cards.

If you still have questions visit this thread:
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/tournament-poker-59/ask-collin-moshman-katie-dozier-about-429017//
 
TeUnit

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You can steal with a min raise, you can steal with 2.2x raise, you can steal with a shove, and you can even limp stab- the trick is knowing which sizing to use against which villans. Some villans wont fold to min raise and other villans will read your min raise as very strong etc.
 
Alekxandrovi3

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If the position and with the largest stack, it seems quite reasonable.
 
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newbpokie69

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It is mostly situational but definitely a must at the end of the day to be able to win/finish itm.
Depends on how nitty your opponents are, how big your stack is, icm aware regs who you can put pressure on. and to trap thinking/aggressive opponents who'll play back at you with your monsters.
also your image how youve been playing so far etc etc
another icky spot is limping otb or even ep 4handed and min stabbing, you'll often get folds depending on your opponents.
many different ways to steal, all need to be incorporated based on situation, of course you'll get unlucky and run into something big every now and then but i think the benefits outweigh the luck because how hard it can be to get cards and the blinds are just so valuable. plus even if you fail to steal, the high blinds mean that just one hand and/or another steal can easily get you back in the game.
 
Vorem

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Much depends on the situation and your opponent on the big blind. It's also good to have a hand chart for styling blinds
 
Sean Pilgrim

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Lets say we're on BTN with 15BBs left in our stack. We get dealt KQ, do we raise 2.2x in order to steal the blinds with the given effective stack? if we get called and we miss then what? that's why Im saying you cant practically steal blinds with 15BBs , it's a shove of fold game imo. But then again I may be missing something here??

KQo and KQs are going to have a lot of equity even vs hands that call us in this spot when we jam. You can min-raise and call vs a jam from SB or BB we'll retain enough equity to at least make this a break even spot most of the time with 40% equity vs most SB/BB 3-betting ranges. Min-raising and having BB defend is totally fine too but you'll need to know how to navigate your way post-flop.

With 15BB's we're not opening 2.2BB, we're opening 2.


In this game it's always better to make aggressive mistakes than passive ones.
 
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pacificatorul

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Stealing blinds is vital in any type of poker game. Especially deep in tournaments or SNGs
 
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