Is sitting out a strategy?

[aquadad]

ok well then sitting out is a strategy like getting all your chips in an 80-20 dog is a strategy.

I guess so. what is the reason for getting all your chips in as an 80-20 dog? I would guess that your strategy is to double up or go home...And, btw, you better run from the guy on the corner, the bill is probably counterfeit.

 

[skoldpadda]

Yeah and when the guy on the corner tries to hand me a $20 bill I just avoid it and run away too. Good strategy.

Me, too. The bill could be cursed. Why risk it?

 

[c9h13no3]

Me, too. The bill could be cursed. Why risk it?

Not to mention that money is dirty and has lots of germs on it. He's prolly in the corner for good reason: leprosy, STD's, ugly. Best to stay away from the free money.

 

[zachvac]

I guess so. what is the reason for getting all your chips in as an 80-20 dog? I would guess that your strategy is to double up or go home...And, btw, you better run from the guy on the corner, the bill is probably counterfeit.

The reason to do it is to throw away money, much like the reason for sitting out.

edit: Let me re-phrase.

Basically sitting out is the equivalent to saying "I suck at poker, I can't control myself and so I'm going to throw away a little money because I know if play hands I'll throw away more money".

With that mentality you should not be playing a tournament.

 

[Makwa]

I like to sit out and observe the other players to see how there playing............ If there is too many donks going all in with 72o i will sit out until they are all gone..........

I like to watch.

Yeah and when the guy on the corner tries to hand me a $20 bill I just avoid it and run away too. Good strategy.

Your parents proofed you well.

Basically sitting out is the equivalent to saying "I suck at poker, I can't control myself and so I'm going to throw away a little money because I know if play hands I'll throw away more money".

With that mentality you should not be playing a tournament.

Well said, txs.
I dont think, to answer OP, there is any strategic advantage in sitting out. If you are afraid of donks, dont play poker online (or most places). BTW sitting out will not save you from donks, some make it deep in the tourney before they bust you or vice versa. Advantage to staying engaged from the start is you can stalk the donk and double up. Learn to play all styles, all donks, all masters, as yoda says (I made that up).

 

[tjyff]

I would say it is mostly just them being late. Sitting out doesn't really give you an advantage because you could just fold your cards otherwise. Playing early can give you an advantage early on, but playing late can save you from bad beats from donks.

 

[Crystal Blue]

I wouldnt completely discount sitting out at the start of a tournament as a strategy. Someone already said, if it works for you then by all means do it, I see nothing wrong with that statement.
Obviously sitting out and missing out on the chance to gather up a nice pile of chips is -EV, but so are many other actions or decisions you make throughout a tournament.
Personally, I would never sit out unless absolutely necessary but a lot of the pro players do it so what do I know. They even do it in rebuy tourns and dont forget, poker is their living and they depend on it and know a lot more about these things than anyone of us here does.
I wouldnt do it, but I think its wrong to wave it away as completely wrong or without merit.

 

[LankanSoulja]

Since the blinds are so small, people just keep calling to see if the flop helps them or not. No1 is going to be playing tight so they wait out till tis all over. I usually just play premium hand and fold the rest.

 

[zachvac]

I wouldnt completely discount sitting out at the start of a tournament as a strategy. Someone already said, if it works for you then by all means do it, I see nothing wrong with that statement.
Obviously sitting out and missing out on the chance to gather up a nice pile of chips is -EV, but so are many other actions or decisions you make throughout a tournament.
Personally, I would never sit out unless absolutely necessary but a lot of the pro players do it so what do I know. They even do it in rebuy tourns and dont forget, poker is their living and they depend on it and know a lot more about these things than anyone of us here does.
I wouldnt do it, but I think its wrong to wave it away as completely wrong or without merit.

Name one pro tournament player who uses this strategy. I don't think there is one that exists. It's a losing play, it literally says "I can't control myself and make myself play good because I suck, so I'll just throw some money away". Anyone who tries to make it out as a legitimate strategy is just plain wrong.

 

[blankoblanco]

well hellmuth always arrived notoriously late for the main event, but i think that's more about making some statement about how awesome he is than it is a "strategy"

 

[Crystal Blue]

Hellmuth does it all the time and I'm guessing he knows what he is doing. I have also seen Ferguson do it about half a dozen times.

Along with that, many more pro players have no problem with playing 2 wsop events simultaneously due to the fact that certain events will overlap if they are running deep in the former of the 2.

I dont think it would be an accurate thing to say that those situations are unavoidable because at the end of the day, pro poker players worth their salt will EXPECT to run deep every time they enter a tournament.

Obviously they wont run deep all of the time but like you said earlier, why bother even sitting down if you are running scared or questioning your own ability.

 

[DawgBones]

Thanks 4 the help... here's what I got

Be careful of these players called "donk". They can and will give up chips(possibly tainted) if you play good hands. Do not, under any circumstances ,accept a $20 dollar bill from strangers because it may be germy (but isn't that why they have money launderers?). A certain someone by the title of "Dorkus" is laughing out loud at my thread. Anyone with Zig Zag in their name...stop bogarting! And finally if someone moans or groans in their response it is one of two things...you're not picking up what they're putting down or they had a heaping helping of three bean salad the night before.

 

[henriquetnn]

It is true that many have donks at the beginning of tournaments, then stabilizes, I would be particularly sitout the first 12 minutes. Thus, run less risk of competing with donks hehe...

:icon_sant​

 

[bestbefoldin]

i wouldn't sit out unattented just cause you might miss a monster hand...
if you don't like playing in the beginning of a tourney just fold any hand less than queens and surf the web or watch something while you keep an eye on the hands youre dealt

 

[whatsupbaby]

sitting out can be a good strategy under some conditions like if your above the chip avg by like 6000 chips then yeah i think thats a good strategy

 

[OzExorcist]

Hellmuth does it all the time and I'm guessing he knows what he is doing. I have also seen Ferguson do it about half a dozen times.

Along with that, many more pro players have no problem with playing 2 WSOP events simultaneously due to the fact that certain events will overlap if they are running deep in the former of the 2.

I dont think it would be an accurate thing to say that those situations are unavoidable because at the end of the day, pro poker players worth their salt will EXPECT to run deep every time they enter a tournament.

Obviously they wont run deep all of the time but like you said earlier, why bother even sitting down if you are running scared or questioning your own ability.

You're right - professional players regularly turn up late to live tournaments, which is pretty much equivalent to sitting out the early levels of an online tournament.

I promise you though, they do not do this because they believe it's a +EV strategy for that particular tournament.

Reasons they do it could include:

- Turning up late could make people talk about you more, which might in turn be +EV in your next sponsorship package negotiation. Phil Hellmuth is probably the prime example, he turns up late to the Main Event every year as a PR stunt, not as a playing strategy.

- The -EV from turning up late is outweighed by +EV from whatever cash game / prop bet / tennis match you happen to be participating in at start time.

- The -EV from turning up late is outweighed by your need to show everyone that you're not a n00b who turns up on time for everything. You're cooler than that*.

Yes, some players register in two WSOP events on the one day. Again, they don't expect that leaving an unattended stack will be +EV for them in that specific tournament. Instead, they figure that while they're reducing their EV in the two tournaments, their total EV still exceeds what it would've been if they had've just played in one.

Also, I think you're wrong about professional's expectations. None would reasonably claim that they expect to go deep in every tournament they play in. They might (should, actually) believe that with a little luck they're in with a good chance to win every tournament they enter, but at the same time they know that bad beats happen, and sometimes they're just going to go out early.

Long story short: sitting out is -EV for the tournament in question. In some cases, other factors may outweigh that -EV and make it worthwhile for you to register then turn up late. But in and of itself, it's -EV. Play the damn hands, even if you end up manually folding every single one for the period you would've sat out.



* Granted, this is not nescessarily a good reason. But I believe it's still a valid one in some players minds.

 

[zachvac]

sitting out can be a good strategy under some conditions like if your above the chip avg by like 6000 chips then yeah i think thats a good strategy

So you basically admit you got the extra chips by pure luck and are hoping not to donk them back. Remember the prize pools are slanted heavily towards 1st place. If you aren't taking every chance you get to build a bigger stack you are throwing money away. Your strategy is correct if you think you suck and that by playing you would be spewing chips back to the better players.

 

[zachvac]

Oh and what Oz said about the pros.

 

[Crystal Blue]

Please excuse my inability to "multi-quote", it is something I am yet to figure out.
I don't know if you read my previous posts on page one of this thread so in case you didn't, here is what I have said on this subject so far.

#1
I dont know about online poker but in big live games thats what Hellmuth seems to do. Mind you, he does like to make a grand entrance so I dont know if its a strategy thing with him or just a big ego trip lol. Its been working out pretty well for him though so I guess it cant be all bad.

#2
I wouldnt completely discount sitting out at the start of a tournament as a strategy. Someone already said, if it works for you then by all means do it, I see nothing wrong with that statement.
Obviously sitting out and missing out on the chance to gather up a nice pile of chips is -EV, but so are many other actions or decisions you make throughout a tournament.
Personally, I would never sit out unless absolutely necessary but a lot of the pro players do it so what do I know. They even do it in rebuy tourns and dont forget, poker is their living and they depend on it and know a lot more about these things than anyone of us here does.
I wouldnt do it, but I think its wrong to wave it away as completely wrong or without merit.

**********

As you can see from the 2 posts above, I have a good indication already as to other reasons why a pro might purposely turn up late for a big tournament. I also know the -EV likelihood of doing it.

I think the point I was trying to make was that ( and responding to OP asking if there was an advantage to it ) there is most certainly some room to not completely discount it, that it merits some positives.

Like OZ says ( and I agree ) "Yes, some players register in two WSOP events on the one day. Again, they don't expect that leaving an unattended stack will be +EV for them in that specific tournament. Instead, they figure that while they're reducing their EV in the two tournaments, their total EV still exceeds what it would've been if they had've just played in one".

Like I stated, it's not something I would do myself ( not yet anyway ) but, I would never ever just wave it away completely as a total no starter.

 

[isaac]

no sitting out is not a strategy. There i said it. If you want to do something like that your a moron. lol. A much better thing to do would be to check fold all but monster hands.

 

[TiltMonkey999]

Nicely Said

I do sit out occasionally til 1st break. But If I have high pp like JJ to AA ill hurry and sit in the hand.

In small stake Rebuy Tournies I usually sit out a little while till most of the donks with CASH eventually get knocked out..There is no use in fighting them when your BR is low..It's the same as playing slow in the beginning..Wait for your hand, and when you get it, play it like Phil Helmuth..Haha..But seriously..Keep at it..And it sometimes can be a good strategy towards cashing in a tournament!
Great Post
Take Care
Ray

 

[zachvac]

In small stake Rebuy Tournies I usually sit out a little while till most of the donks with CASH eventually get knocked out..There is no use in fighting them when your BR is low..It's the same as playing slow in the beginning..Wait for your hand, and when you get it, play it like Phil Helmuth..Haha..But seriously..Keep at it..And it sometimes can be a good strategy towards cashing in a tournament!
Great Post
Take Care
Ray

If you can't afford to get your money in with a marginal edge and rebuy several times in a rebuy, don't play a rebuy.

 

[xXShannonAXx]

i tend to sit out the first 10mins of freerolls coz of all the donks but in a cash game i play from the start all the way threw

 

[tonymac32]

in person not really.. online yes.. online people love going all in and reraising all in, the first part of the tourny... in low stakes n e thing under $5 or what whatever you consider to be low... all in preflop at 5/10 is retarted the amound of money you get by steelin (lets say 6 people called) 60 chips so dumb.... tournys dont get interesting till most of the donks get out.. and thats not just in freerolls any online tourny with a lot of people... but specifically in a dollar rebuy or some kinda tourny with 200+ people... its a 3 or 4 HOUR TOURNAMENT sitting out only helps you when your above the average... peopel say but you missed a hand that couldve doubled you up... maybe so but you prob missed about 6 that wouldve put you out or really damaged your stack... then theres the fatigue factor... some people dont play good for 3 4 hours straight and make bad calls when theyre fatigue (just my oppinion im not a pro)

 

[tonymac32]

i dotn really even like refering to people as donks... its just loose-agressive/agressive.. or calling station.. depending on how they play...