SB range 🤔🤔🤔

[iwont20]

What do you think of this SB range? Do you agree with it?


(the question was a part of the Wednesday quiz on pairrd, all stacks are 60 BBs)

I'd say I can see this range being a thing against an aggro BB, but there were no indication of the BB's style, so it's a default range? What do you think of it? I find it to be surprising at least.

 

[MrHachiman]

I see it as pretty standard, although there are some extra hands like 53o, T3o, T2o that would fold directly. As you say, without information from the rival it is a bit difficult to know which range is more optimal. But as a standard, I don't see it as unreasonable. I would leave more hands to raise but that's already a matter of morphology where the EV of playing call or raise is close and you want to mix some calls with strong hands (at least from a gto perspective). Although I don't go too much on GTO in preflop ranges, playing 80-85% from the SB makes sense from this perspective as a default.

edit: of course all this thought for 60bb, if were more or less it would change the whole range

 

[iwont20]

I see it as pretty standard, although there are some extra hands like 53o, T3o, T2o that would fold directly. As you say, without information from the rival it is a bit difficult to know which range is more optimal. But as a standard, I don't see it as unreasonable. I would leave more hands to raise but that's already a matter of morphology where the EV of playing call or raise is close and you want to mix some calls with strong hands (at least from a gto perspective). Although I don't go too much on GTO in preflop ranges, playing 80-85% from the SB makes sense from this perspective as a default.

edit: of course all this thought for 60bb, if were more or less it would change the whole range

Thank you so much for your reply!

I agree with playing a lot of hands from SB, but I'm very surprised to see how many we're completing. I would raise almost everything in this range, unless there are specific reads (okay, I understand it's not a good strategy and we need to limp some, regardless of the image of BB). But here there are so many calls. I'm shocked to see that all the premium hands, for example, are rather a complete than a raise 😳

I wasn't playing that much in last two or three years, and I definitely wasn't looking at any strategy, but has this amount of calls become a recent strategy or have I always been this bad? 😭

I don't know, maybe there are some stakes which justify this range more, but if we're talking about micro-low, wouldn't it be just inviting for trouble to just call this much strong hands. I'm in a huge disbelief. Or, as I already said, I'm just soo off the strategy

 

[MrHachiman]

Thank you so much for your reply!

I agree with playing a lot of hands from SB, but I'm very surprised to see how many we're completing. I would raise almost everything in this range, unless there are specific reads (okay, I understand it's not a good strategy and we need to limp some, regardless of the image of BB). But here there are so many calls. I'm shocked to see that all the premium hands, for example, are rather a complete than a raise 😳

I wasn't playing that much in last two or three years, and I definitely wasn't looking at any strategy, but has this amount of calls become a recent strategy or have I always been this bad? 😭

I don't know, maybe there are some stakes which justify this range more, but if we're talking about micro-low, wouldn't it be just inviting for trouble to just call this much strong hands. I'm in a huge disbelief. Or, as I already said, I'm just soo off the strategy

In truth I think the same as you, and in fact I am raising most of the hands for the levels that I frequent. What happens is that this is a range created with some GTO/Solver program that looks for the best strategy, assuming that the opponent also plays in the same way, that is, in the least exploitable way possible. But that never happens at the tables since we don't play against AI.

It's always a good practice to know what the gto ranges are like and studying it, but in practice, I don't really play like that and I think the vast majority of players aren't following those ranges.

Personally I think that the GTO preflop in MTT does not make any sense. Most of the time we are facing an opponent that we will never see again, in a specific situation that will never happen again. It doesn't make sense to try to "balance a range" or get hands on the limp to be balanced. Unless you have a specific reading on the player (or play high stakes the same tournaments over and over again against the same people).

 

[iwont20]

In truth I think the same as you, and in fact I am raising most of the hands for the levels that I frequent. What happens is that this is a range created with some GTO/Solver program that looks for the best strategy, assuming that the opponent also plays in the same way, that is, in the least exploitable way possible. But that never happens at the tables since we don't play against AI.

It's always a good practice to know what the gto ranges are like and studying it, but in practice, I don't really play like that and I think the vast majority of players aren't following those ranges.

Personally I think that the GTO preflop in MTT does not make any sense. Most of the time we are facing an opponent that we will never see again, in a specific situation that will never happen again. It doesn't make sense to try to "balance a range" or get hands on the limp to be balanced. Unless you have a specific reading on the player (or play high stakes the same tournaments over and over again against the same people).

Oh I see it now. Will stick to my ranges then Unless there are some factors or I somehow become a highstakes reg

Thank you so much for the clarifications and your input, you helped me a lot 🙌🙌🙌 I sort of lost my peace of mind once I saw this range 😅

 

[georgi krastev]

But here there are so many calls.

The only logical explanation I can think of is that these premium hand calls are a trap for the opponent... but sometimes we fall for it... As the colleague above said: if we are not playing against another GTO, this range misses the point...

 

[eetenor]

What do you think of this SB range? Do you agree with it?

View attachment 339108
(the question was a part of the Wednesday quiz on pairrd, all stacks are 60 BBs)

I'd say I can see this range being a thing against an aggro BB, but there were no indication of the BB's style, so it's a default range? What do you think of it? I find it to be surprising at least.

This range is dependent on the BB range and then SB reaction to BB raise. So looking at this in isolation is not the learning moment required to know if we need to deviate from GTO.

This is BB reaction when SB Limps GTO

This is SB action when BB raises our limp

Dark red is shove and yes it is a shove for 60bb

A good study point as a deviation from GTO is would we use a shoving range vs either passive or aggressive BB raises after we limp?
What range adjustments would we make ?

 

[iwont20]

This range is dependent on the BB range and then SB reaction to BB raise. So looking at this in isolation is not the learning moment required to know if we need to deviate from GTO.
View attachment 339427
This is BB reaction when SB Limps GTO

This is SB action when BB raises our limp
View attachment 339428
Dark red is shove and yes it is a shove for 60bb

A good study point as a deviation from GTO is would we use a shoving range vs either passive or aggressive BB raises after we limp?
What range adjustments would we make ?

Wow, thank you very much for making this calculations! It's very interesting to look at.

Well, I don't really like the idea of shoving 60 blinds. I guess, I can see pushing 99-TT, AQo hands against an aggro player though.