Satties - are they worth it?

[amatola]

On the one hand you often can get into bigger MTTs for 1/10th ( or less) of the value – so even a min cash makes them lucrative. i am not even looking into the sattie into sattie into sattie type events.


On the other hand, you need to make two “cashes” in a row – a fairly daunting task – and for this reason, I have been put off entering them.


But lately, I have thought that as long as you make a ticket 1 out of 9 times (working on 1/10 they generally use on partypoker) then you are “in the money” as it where – even though, of course, you still need to cash in the actual event.

 

[fundiver199]

As with any other game format you need to know, why you are playing. For recreational players satellites can be a great opportunity to take a cheap "shot" of playing a large tournament like Sunday Million. For people looking to play tournaments for profit, satellites should not be the main priority, but there can be value found in them, if they offer an overlay or very soft fields.

Satellites also offer a variation from, what can after a while become a monotone grind. And finally satellites can be used to get experience with higher buyins without spending to much at a time on your "shot taking". So after pretty much never playing them, I have begun to incorporate satellites in my game, but only as a small part of my total volume.

 

[mardi1987]

After a long time I played 2 satellites yesterday. I took the card in both, but the problem is that for now I don't have a tournament in that room that would suit me for the card. It seems to me that I can exchange them for money after a while so it will be a better option

 

[hunterws]

I enjoy the all-in satellites, no skill, all luck and quick.
My win rate in those is 50/50 so far.
Can be a tool to save some loot instead of buying in directly.
I only play them on occasion though.

 

[mina271]

The question of whether sattys are worth playing can only say yes they are. But even if you can play in expensive tournaments with less money, it depends on the ability of the player whether he understands the game and whether he is lucky. But this is always the case when you play poker, there is always someone who tries his luck with total scrap cards and then wins. This happens a little less in the more expensive tournaments than in the micros, but it also happens and if you are unlucky you lose despite having played very good poker. But if you got into the tournament via a satty then it doesn't hurt that much. Although I have to say if it hurts when you lose then you probably shouldn't play poker

 

[Recreationalplayer]

Satellites are good way to give a shot at big tourneys with small bankroll.

 

[nuttea]

On the one hand you often can get into bigger MTTs for 1/10th ( or less) of the value – so even a min cash makes them lucrative. i am not even looking into the sattie into sattie into sattie type events.


On the other hand, you need to make two “cashes” in a row – a fairly daunting task – and for this reason, I have been put off entering them.


But lately, I have thought that as long as you make a ticket 1 out of 9 times (working on 1/10 they generally use on Partypoker) then you are “in the money” as it where – even though, of course, you still need to cash in the actual event.

From a large number of intermediate stages, interest and desire to get to the very top can disappear; - The initial stages of satellites are in turbo or super turbo format, so very often you have to go all-in and take risks in order to take a prizeThe bulk of the participants in the satellites are players with big ambitions, but a small bankroll. As a rule, the buy-ins in satellites are small and you can make several attempts. If you are a beginner player, but want everything at once, but funds are limited, then satellites are just what you need.

 

[1984]

On the one hand you often can get into bigger MTTs for 1/10th ( or less) of the value – so even a min cash makes them lucrative. i am not even looking into the sattie into sattie into sattie type events.


On the other hand, you need to make two “cashes” in a row – a fairly daunting task – and for this reason, I have been put off entering them.


But lately, I have thought that as long as you make a ticket 1 out of 9 times (working on 1/10 they generally use on Partypoker) then you are “in the money” as it where – even though, of course, you still need to cash in the actual event.

Playing them more or less regularly on partypoker, even the 3-4 steps one - the only negative side, if you start to play them, and you qualify for the next phase, you can't unregister, you are automatically in. However plenty of them works like that, the sat stops when 20% of the field left, and you take further your stack to the next one. Pretty good idea, i like it.


And on partypoker there are "normal" satties with max 40 min late reg, - usually less -, not 2-3 hours like in several other rooms, those are not worthy at all, waste of time. Most of them have 3-5 min blind levels, so it doesnt take 5-6 hours, max 1,5. I think, they are far the best if it is about satellites. Even that i really hate the 7max tourneys, and plenty satties like that....

Used to play satties in other rooms, too, mostly in wpn rooms, but it was annoyingly slow (15 min blind levels on satties, 15-20 levels of late regs ??????) for 1-4 tickets... totally messed up the variance, and often without even reaching the ticket prize...

Oh, and simply answer for the question: Yes, it is worthy, have to select the right ones, because there are plenty.

 

[makisaa]

The satellites for the micro mtts they are not so interesting. I prefer buy-in to the mtt. The are usefull for the higher buy-in mtts. They are a good option there, because they are a small price comparing with the buy-in of the mtts.

 

[1984]

The satellites for the micro mtts they are not so interesting. I prefer buy-in to the mtt. The are usefull for the higher buy-in mtts. They are a good option there, because they are a small price comparing with the buy-in of the mtts.

Sure, but Amatola started the thread, because he/she doesnt think, it is worthy ( about the step type ones definitely), meantime, those are the ones, what can qualify you to the high stakes (109-530$ or +) buyin tourneys...

Otherwise, there are satellites to all level, I like to play the sats for low, medium tickets. (and depends on the buyins, those are 1-2 step sats.)

 

[vittopio]

I really love playing qualifying tournaments! My biggest win was thanks to them!

 

[ironduke11]

Some satellites you can see are designed to make the poker room money....it's just not worth the variance and wild play which in no way are preparation for the actual event.

I was grinding ept satellites in pokerstars when I realised that at the later stages I was playing against pokerstar pros who were only there to try to knock out players....major discouragement...
Having spent alot of time grinding stages just to get knocked out by someone trying to knock out amateurs.....

 

[skoldpadda]

A lot of good advice in this thread.

Here's an excellent book on adjusting strategy when playing in a satellite:

 

[amatola]

Well, my first week of playing satties has been interesting and although I have made more in tickets that I have entered, I have not actually cashed with any of those tickets - but will give it a few more weeks

 

[LetterRip]

Personally they are my favorite format. My ROI for tickets is far better - partially because I've studied ticket strategy, and partially because I have poor final table skill. So being able to capture a large percentage of return at a lower placing really works well for me.

I admit I'm not very could at turning a ticket win into cash for the tournament I win buy-ins to though.

 

[1984]

Well, my first week of playing satties has been interesting and although I have made more in tickets that I have entered, I have not actually cashed with any of those tickets - but will give it a few more weeks

I saw you there few times in the last several days. So you gave the chance. It is worthy, just takes time. Did you give a chance for the 3-4 steps satties? Any high stakes tickets?

Did you try to collect tickets for the following weeks for specific level of leaderboard tourneys? (and play them every day for LB points.?) It is great they have a weekly tourney leaderboard on all levels - even i never could play enough, reach enough ITM to get high stake tickets from there...

GL!

 

[Zorba]

I play some of the satty's for $16.50 tickets, I tend to wait till the last couple of levels of late reg and spin into them on ACR, last one I played I spun in for 4 cents, got KO'd spun in again for 8 cents, got KO'd again near end of late reg, and spun in again for 1 cent.

I've done similar more than a few times, it seems like it's a lot easier to spin in towards the end of late reg.

Satty tickets are an easy way to take a shot at a higher buy in that many can't afford.

 

[amatola]

I saw you there few times in the last several days. So you gave the chance. It is worthy, just takes time. Did you give a chance for the 3-4 steps satties? Any high stakes tickets?

Did you try to collect tickets for the following weeks for specific level of leaderboard tourneys? (and play them every day for LB points.?) It is great they have a weekly tourney leaderboard on all levels - even i never could play enough, reach enough ITM to get high stake tickets from there...

GL!

Did turn 55c into a $55 ticket - but have been getting hammered in the last few days - running so bad. Might take a few days off and get my head back in it.

 

[TeUnit]

To me Sattys are good to play because often the other players do not understand the icm of the payout structure. Say a 10 person Satty pays 5 players, so this should play like like a double or nothing, but often players play like its a traditional structure game. Or you could have a Satty that only pays only 1st and players will not loosen up their game enough to adjust to the payout structure.

 

[Plut41]

A good opportunity to buy a cheap ticket with s soft field. But it takes additional time to play the sattelite so... it's really up to you.

 

[LFC_yllnwa]

If they are not very large, up to 100 people in each tournament, they look very attractive! But in order to play comfortably, you must have a reserve in your bank. I definitely like to play SnG up to $5 in different rooms. It does not take very much time and allows you to warm up a little before a big tournament, if you have won the entry! Of course, there are disadvantages to this, when you play a lot, constant rebuy's and only lose money, but you to have a strategy and tactics for these tournaments and understand, when you can to leave I vote for these opportunitys!

 

[Poker Orifice]

Satellites can be very profitable but like all formats & variations of the game, you need to know what you're doing as the game plays differently vs. a typical MTT. (teunit pretty much nails it in their post a few above this one)

I haven't played many sattelites recently (only some of the ones for SunMillion &/or some of the other series going on Pokerstars) but I have played quite a few in the past (Fulltilt). Back then there were professional players playing mostly just satellites, able to get T$'s then as opposed to just tickets for target tournaments. While running a few names on my tables I've noticed there are some high volume 'regs' who play quite a few, making them their main format to play.

In satellites it's about surviving and trying to maintain a stack that has fold equity. You'll often need to pass on potentially +ev spots as accumulation isn't the name of the game.
You'll see a number of amateurs making very poor ICM decisions in latter stages, & some others who try to run over the table while winning more chips at that point has very little value. ("You can't win two tickets from one game")

 

[alien666dj]

Satellites are worth playing, but only if you win a lot of tickets to a higher tournament. I won about $70 this way.

 

[fundiver199]

Back then there were professional players playing mostly just satellites, able to get T$'s then as opposed to just tickets for target tournaments.

Today however most poker sites do not allow that option. You either have to play an exact target tournament or use a ticket for a tournament with a specific buyin within a certain period of time. On 888 Poker for instance a 55$ ticket is valid for 30 days, and can only be used for 55$ MTTs. You can not choose to play for instance ten 5,5$ MTTs or five 11$ MTTs instead.

And this does present a bit of a problem as far as bankroll management is concerned. Because either you then play satellites for a fraction of your normal buyin, or you play underrolled for the target tournament. The first option is in theory fine, but you are probably not optimizing your hourly winrate that way, at least not on sites like PokerStars with many regular MTTs running all the time. And the second option will for obvious reasons lead to a high risk of busting your roll or at least drive variance up to undesirable levels.

You'll see a number of amateurs making very poor ICM decisions in latter stages, & some others who try to run over the table while winning more chips at that point has very little value. ("You can't win two tickets from one game")

This is very true. Even though I have studied ICM a lot, I actually did not know the phenomenon presented in the first part of this video, which is, that as a runaway chipleader near the bubble, you should actually just sit out and let the other players collide. To be fair this is actually, what people completely unaware of ICM might intuitively do, because as you say, "you cant win two tickets from one game". So especially in situations, where there are still multible tables near the bubble, it makes sense to just fold and wait for someone to bust at another table. You dont need deep theoretical knowledge to understand this.

But when its down to just one table, you certainly do see players, who think, they should act as the "chip bully" and shove every hand, while in fact the optimal strategy for them is to do the exact opposite. And you will also see people calling waaaaay to wide in spots, where they are only supposed to call with aces. In fact someone recently shared such a hand in the tournament analysis forum, where he had called with 66 and busted on the bubble. So often times you can just lean back and wait for someone else to commit ICM suicide on the bubble.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Today however most poker sites do not allow that option. You either have to play an exact target tournament or use a ticket for a tournament with a specific buyin within a certain period of time. On 888 Poker for instance a 55$ ticket is valid for 30 days, and can only be used for 55$ MTTs. You can not choose to play for instance ten 5,5$ MTTs or five 11$ MTTs instead.

And this does present a bit of a problem as far as bankroll management is concerned. Because either you then play satellites for a fraction of your normal buyin, or you play underrolled for the target tournament. The first option is in theory fine, but you are probably not optimizing your hourly winrate that way, at least not on sites like PokerStars with many regular MTTs running all the time. And the second option will for obvious reasons lead to a high risk of busting your roll or at least drive variance up to undesirable levels.




This is very true. Even though I have studied ICM a lot, I actually did not know the phenomenon presented in the first part of this video, which is, that as a runaway chipleader near the bubble, you should actually just sit out and let the other players collide. To be fair this is actually, what people completely unaware of ICM might intuitively do, because as you say, "you cant win two tickets from one game". So especially in situations, where there are still multible tables near the bubble, it makes sense to just fold and wait for someone to bust at another table. You dont need deep theoretical knowledge to understand this.

But when its down to just one table, you certainly do see players, who think, they should act as the "chip bully" and shove every hand, while in fact the optimal strategy for them is to do the exact opposite. And you will also see people calling waaaaay to wide in spots, where they are only supposed to call with aces. In fact someone recently shared such a hand in the tournament analysis forum, where he had called with 66 and busted on the bubble. So often times you can just lean back and wait for someone else to commit ICM suicide on the bubble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjLwdZURi6I

I played A LOT of satellites years ago... and while playing them I would see many others who were doing the same. FTP had tons of great satties, with reg. & turbo structures, typically paying out 1 in 7 & 1 in 4 (as opposed to just 1 in 10) ie. $14 > $55. They also had excellent 18man Sng satties, turbo & reg. structures, paying out 4 spots in some, and paying out 5 + 1 spots in others. (ie. $6 > $26, $8 > $26).