pocket 9s

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flavio695

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midway thru the tournament i was low stacked about 10 bb and someone raised ahead of me i had pocket nines and went all in i lost to pocket queens do u think going all in with pocket 9s was a bad move
 
duggs

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midway thru the tournament i was low stacked about 10 bb and someone raised ahead of me i had pocket nines and went all in i lost to pocket queens do u think going all in with pocket 9s was a bad move

Nope
 
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BlueNowhere

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Also don't post results in future threads, if you do don't do it till discussion is over as what they had and what the outcome was is completely irrelevant.
 
flatcaller

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no when you get under 10 BB you should get it in with 99
 
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gsxr5221

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no when you get under 10 BB you should get it in with 99

preflop that is :), but like everyone else is saying standard play, nothing wrong on your part imo
 
calicard

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midway thru the tournament i was low stacked about 10 bb and someone raised ahead of me i had pocket nines and went all in i lost to pocket queens do u think going all in with pocket 9s was a bad move


It obviously was a bad move you lost :eek:

Besides that you really made the right choice because of your stack size.
 
calicard

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It depends on the range of the player......There is no standard in poker!:cool:

Most the players here base all their decisions om mathematical equations. They really do not care about results for 1 particular hand. They detach themselves from the human factor of the game and play pure statistics.
Just get used to it or be prepared for Battle :fight:
 
JohnBoyWWFC

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No, you don't seem to get it mate. There are plays that are fundamentally +EV and others that are not. They may work sometimes, but will lose you money in the long run. Shoving 99 with 10bbs is +EV. Sometimes you run into QQ, sometimes 88 and sometimes you'll be flipping a couple overs, but it's a move that will win you more than it loses in the long run. Make sense?
 
calicard

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No, you don't seem to get it mate. There are plays that are fundamentally +EV and others that are not. They may work sometimes, but will lose you money in the long run. Shoving 99 with 10bbs is +EV. Sometimes you run into QQ, sometimes 88 and sometimes you'll be flipping a couple overs, but it's a move that will win you more than it loses in the long run. Make sense?
As I stated you turned this into a mathematical equation. Based on a long term statistical program. If you were at the wsop and Phil Ivey raised utg preflop you would not even think twice about shoving with your pocket 9's in utg+1 position. Sometimes there are other factors you might consider before shoving in desperation just because you are way short stack.
As I said this is my opinion. I try to look at who I am playing stack size and the big picture before throwing my last hope in the middle of the table and start praying. In this case I most likely would have busted all in with my 99. But you never know the Moon might have been close to Venus. And the axis of the earth may have affected my decision:D
 
JohnBoyWWFC

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Why would I not shove 99 with 10bbs because Ivey raised? Surely it would depend on what I think his range is, which would depend the table dynamics, his stack size, his view of me etc. There are some situations where I might lay it down like if the guy who raised before me was very nitty from EP but in general folding 10bbs is a bad play with a big pair like that.
 
xdeucesx

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No, you don't seem to get it mate. There are plays that are fundamentally +EV and others that are not. They may work sometimes, but will lose you money in the long run. Shoving 99 with 10bbs is +EV. Sometimes you run into QQ, sometimes 88 and sometimes you'll be flipping a couple overs, but it's a move that will win you more than it loses in the long run. Make sense?

this
 
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gsxr5221

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I agree...You can't just put the guy on like QQ..You could put him on a range of hands or something, like any (22+. AJo+, A9s+, etc. given player tendencies)but given your description you have position on the player and you only have 10BBs at the moment...You know you can't flat call because then your left with 7bbs into a 7bb pot (granted the bb doesn't call). Now what are you doing, are you goin to call any c-bet with overs on the board when he throws out 4bbs into the pot? Probably not..So easiest play for you is to just get it in preflop and even against AK, AQ your slightly ahead. Your shoving 10bbs to increase your stack by at least 40% here(more if called)

If you don't shove with the 9s here with 10bbs then what are you shoving with? Are you waiting until your down to 5bbs to shove with AQo and then complain when you get called by 68 and lose?
 
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RamdeeBen

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Like everyone has said, this is an easy call. You're very unlikely to find a better hand in time and will be blinded away, besides which you are most likely flipping at worse.
 
duggs

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Most the players here base all their decisions om mathematical equations. They really do not care about results for 1 particular hand. They detach themselves from the human factor of the game and play pure statistics.
Just get used to it or be prepared for Battle :fight:

care to enlighten us with exactly what the human factor is?
 
duggs

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As I stated you turned this into a mathematical equation. Based on a long term statistical program. If you were at the WSOP and Phil Ivey raised utg preflop you would not even think twice about shoving with your pocket 9's in utg+1 position. Sometimes there are other factors you might consider before shoving in desperation just because you are way short stack.
As I said this is my opinion. I try to look at who I am playing stack size and the big picture before throwing my last hope in the middle of the table and start praying. In this case I most likely would have busted all in with my 99. But you never know the Moon might have been close to Venus. And the axis of the earth may have affected my decision:D

Poker is fundamentally a game of mathematics, the player itself only changes the range we are up against, in this spot i don't think you can realistically construct an opening range where we are better of folding and going through the blinds than shoving.
 
calicard

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care to enlighten us with exactly what the human factor is?
I totally agree with shoving all in here. With the facts given by the OP.
The point I am making is there are other factors in poker beside your +ev. You told me once to shove with pocket 7's which by the way is a losing hand if played in early position or against an early position raiser it is -ev according to your matematical statistics. Not only did you tell me to shove but to shove when I had 26,000 chips in 2nd place and could have easily folded my way into a 4th place finish. In that situation there were three players that would be forced all in next round. But you insisted I shove with 77 against an early position raiser who could have eliminated me. There was no reason for me to shove that hand. That's like saying shove with 22 utg first hand of a tourney. A poker player must determine the kind of opponents that he is up against and he must play accordingly.
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duggs

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how is 77 a -ev hand?
Do you even know what EV is?

And for the final time, the number of chips you had is irrelevant if the blinds are high, by mentioning the stack you had you are inferring that
100,000 chips at 100/200 level is different to having 10,000 chips at 10/20. its not.
3bet shoving 77 with 17bb into someone opening 100% of hands with 40bb is extremely +EV
 
duggs

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That's like saying shove with 22 utg first hand of a tourney. A poker player must determine the kind of opponents that he is up against and he must play accordingly.
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No its not, effective stacks and previous action and position are all significantly different. not to mention the relative strength of 77 compared to 22.
 
calicard

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No its not, effective stacks and previous action and position are all significantly different. not to mention the relative strength of 77 compared to 22.

As I said it would be totally right to shove here and this is why. My point is at times there are other factors to consider besides your = - Hand Value.

The factors to consider in this 99 scenario are
#1 would a stop n go work here ?
In my opinion it would not due OP's position, He might get several callers behind him then he is in trouble.

#2 Is the isolation factor He would want to isolate the pot between him and the original raiser.

#3 At this point in the game you really cannot worry what the original raiser has you just need to put it in with your 99 and hope you win.
 
calicard

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how is 77 a -ev hand?
Do you even know what EV is?

And for the final time, the number of chips you had is irrelevant if the blinds are high, by mentioning the stack you had you are inferring that
100,000 chips at 100/200 level is different to having 10,000 chips at 10/20. its not.
3bet shoving 77 with 17bb into someone opening 100% of hands with 40bb is extremely +EV
77 played in early position or against an early position raise is a losing hand.

http://www.tightpoker.com/hands/ev_position.html
 
calicard

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how is 77 a -ev hand?
Do you even know what EV is?

And for the final time, the number of chips you had is irrelevant if the blinds are high, by mentioning the stack you had you are inferring that
100,000 chips at 100/200 level is different to having 10,000 chips at 10/20. its not.
3bet shoving 77 with 17bb into someone opening 100% of hands with 40bb is extremely +EV

When 3 players will be forced all in next round and i have at least 15 rounds left come on.
 
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