playing for itm or for ft

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jj20002

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last week i´ve played several mtts but in a moment a got 5 itms in a row but never a deep run so my bankroll just add a little,

now i´m reconsidering to be more aggressive at the beginning and not care to much to be busted in the early stations but try to make a deep run in one or two mtt a month instead of almost reach itm several times and at the end the bankroll never goes up, and usually goes down despite the itms,

what is your suggestion? try to be more aggressive early and go for more chips, risking more, and being busted more frequently or stay still, just play rock and bet high only when you are 100% sure you have the nuts?
 
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chris808

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Yes give yourself a chance to win not spend 2+ hours to double your buyin
 
mapt02h

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definately play for final table and give yourself a chance to get lucky :)
 
loafes

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Playing for a top three spot is optimal. No reason to fear the bubble and in fact the bubble is probably one of the best times to get agressive. Min cashes are more about slowing down the amount you lose more than adding to the amount you win. The final table is where all the money is at.
 
DonV73

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now i´m reconsidering to be more aggressive at the beginning and not care to much to be busted in the early stations

Imo, I would not do this if I was you.... You should be tighter in the early stages of a MTT... When you are close to ITM, that is when you should get more aggressive and take chips from those who are playing to be in the money and are scared to get busted before that.
 
Akorps

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If you increase the variance, you have a better chance to go deep, but also a better chance to bust out early :)
 
nitulbhatia

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I just sat out in a final table, i was 3rd in chips, sat out for like 12 mins then played a few hands and ended up 4th place, which wasnt too bad.
 
horizon12

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when not ITM u need play very agrasive game, more marginal hands, what stack was avrage when ITM, when will ITM need more stealing and play more against shorstack. You have to play at least the final table, away from your game level depends.
 
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baudib1

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bust or double early. play to win.
 
naruto_miu

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Early on in any MTT you'll have players willing to risk it all to get that early double up, so I'd suggest playing tight.

Than in the middle stages/or even while the blinds are low if you have an above average chip stack, than just start pounding away at the smaller stacks/tighter players, and even the loose/passive players.

When nearing the ITM or even like 100 away from it, start stealing more/being more aggressive (since you want to accumulate as many chips as possible to increase your chances of going deeper.This doesn't mean getting so aggressive that you're literally in every pot contesting it (whether it be in position/oop), just means start 3betting more light vs more of the aggressive players on the table (restealing vs the constant stealers at this stage of the game).

When ITM bubble bursts once again, calm down on the aggression until your really near the FT/3 tables away from FT (only reason I suggested calming down is because when the money bursts the maniacs will start playing crazy again and really you don't wish to bust out early after the money bubble had burst, since it's still a small cash).

FT again just steal more in LP or play relatively tight and just ladder up.
 
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alex5207

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last week i´ve played several mtts but in a moment a got 5 itms in a row but never a deep run so my bankroll just add a little,

now i´m reconsidering to be more aggressive at the beginning and not care to much to be busted in the early stations but try to make a deep run in one or two mtt a month instead of almost reach itm several times and at the end the bankroll never goes up, and usually goes down despite the itms,

what is your suggestion? try to be more aggressive early and go for more chips, risking more, and being busted more frequently or stay still, just play rock and bet high only when you are 100% sure you have the nuts?

When deciding whether to go for ft or itm you really have to consider som brm. Your bankroll needs to be quite a bit larger if you're going for ft everytime. If you play large field mtt's you have to be ready to flip a lot of times during the tourney to accumulate enough chips to get to the final table, meaning you will bust out quite a lot.

I would always advice to go for ft since it wouldn't be worth the time going for itm, because you often won't get a lot further than the top places paid. So be prepared to bust out 9/10 times, but if you play aggresively and win your flips etc. you will have a much greater chance to the to the ft which will often in big field mtt's give you your buy-in back x 1000+.

Note: Being aggressive does not mean you should play like a maniac during the tournament. Early stages tight is right - but still remember not to be afraid to be very aggresive on spots like the bubble where other people will be scared to give you action because THEY just want to get in itm. Take advantage of every spot like this, then you will have a greater chance to get to the ft

Good luck!
 
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houtlijm

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always play to win. with a rather conservative style you will cash a lot of times but never will cash big. play agressive and go in from time to time. don't be afraid to gamble with JJ or AK preflop.
 
loafes

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the only reason you should be playing to just reach ITM is if you won your seat through a satty and the buy in is many times your regular buy in. Even then you shouldn't really pass up too many +ev spots just to make it in the money
 
Arjonius

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It's not simply a matter of arbitrarily deciding to be more aggressive early on. It also involves figuring out when you can most effectively be more aggressive within the broader context of your game. For example, how aware are you of the changes you'll want to make to your post-flop play to increase the effectiveness of your being more aggressive pre-flop?
 
dj11

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Playing to win/lose will usually result in losing.

I agree that we want the win, but before that can ever happen, you will have to get ITM. IMHO, stop fixating on that win or go home fast approach, and get ITM before you seriously consider upping your aggressive gene.

FWIW, I have won as many tourneys coming in close to the short stack, as I have coming in close to the big stack. Once the bubble busts, it's a whole new ballgame.
 
olliejjc16

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play for the win, you might lose more but you win bigger and have a bigger profit margin in the future, at the start of every tournament your aim should be to reach the final table and to win as much as possible
 
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baudib1

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Seriously, busting out the first hand of an MTT is a better result than you will get 85%-90% of the time.
 
Arjonius

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FWIW, I have won as many tourneys coming in close to the short stack, as I have coming in close to the big stack.
Do you have any data to back this up? My experience over many thousands of tournaments is different. Although I've won dozens over the years after arriving at the FT with a below average stack, when I get there above average, my win % is significantly higher.
 
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Blue_Fossil

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Playing to win/lose will usually result in losing.

I agree that we want the win, but before that can ever happen, you will have to get ITM. IMHO, stop fixating on that win or go home fast approach, and get ITM before you seriously consider upping your aggressive gene.

FWIW, I have won as many tourneys coming in close to the short stack, as I have coming in close to the big stack. Once the bubble busts, it's a whole new ballgame.

I agree with this. You have to get ITM before you can win. Winning the minimum is better than busting out early by being foolishly aggressive. And frankly, an early double up isn't going to do much for you in the long run anyway.

In my view, you should play tight early - focusing solely on gradually building your stack. Ideally, you will be in a position where you can be the aggressor as you near the bubble. If not, hold on for dear life to get ITM. Then be the guy that doubles up right after the bubble bursts. Then double up again and get ready for the final table. :)
 
dj11

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Do you have any data to back this up? My experience over many thousands of tournaments is different. Although I've won dozens over the years after arriving at the FT with a below average stack, when I get there above average, my win % is significantly higher.

I've had PT for years, but that would require a custom filter. If someone could show me how to filter for bubble + results, I'll run it and see.

In fact that would be a great filter for all tourney players to have, and run on their DB's.

Edit add, there is no found filter at PT for this, and thinking about it, I have been lax in updating some to all of the tourneys at several sites where PT did not process a final outcome because I was required to do something, like fill in forms.
 
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fordman427

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I may plat mtt wrong. I set goals like make It to break, make to final 100 or itm which ever comes first then play for final 18, final table then win
 
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Don't ever play just to cash. Always play to win. Make the best decision based on your stack size and equity, don't ever fold in good spots because you want to make the money.
 
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jj20002

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my point is going here, imagine one of first hands one´s been dealt is a strong hand or a monster:

case 1: 3 players go allin, then one sees its cards and pocket aces appear there,

case 2: 2 villains go shove, one has pocket queens

case 3: a rival put all its chips in the center, and one holds AK

what will one do? pay or fold?

in all this cases is almost a coin flip, but if win a lot of chips to be accumulated, if not so long,
 
dj11

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Just so the newer members understand, we have had this conversation many times over the years here at CC, and it is one of those discussions that never gets settled.

But it is a worthwhile topic, one of these days, someone will answer this in such a way that someone will change their mind....... In the mean time we struggle with this continuously.

I will guess that the folks who advocate the win it or lose it fast, have a more involved game at the ring tables.
 
mapt02h

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Don't think about the money when playing either. Here's an example - last summer I won a satellite for the iPoker $200k - was a promo $109 buyin, my biggest to date so far.

The tourney itself was 500BB deep at the start, IIRC. I got AA and got in a preflop betting war with aggro villain, who I noticed was too over the top. Flop was 894 all diamonds, bet, bet, I shove over the top and he called with AK for a flush draw. I knew he didn't have a set/flush. So, I had 67% equity to double early on. Needless to say, he ended up catching the flush on the river - but I was happy with my play even though it tilted me that I lost my stack in the first 10 minutes of the tournament.

Definately play for the win.
 
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