Play to win or make money?

[killing_random]

You have burst through the bubble, but not without its price. Your stack is rather small, 20-25bb.
What's next? There are hard way, easy way and compromise way:
- You can try your best to be the 1st. Screw the ICM, it's only all or nothing.
- Your folds now have +$EV and you can abuse the hell out of it. With over 20bb you could just outsit like 1/3 of players left. Easy money and no variance. But will you ever get close to the first place if you planning to play like this from the start?
- You can switch between the easy way and hard way. Sitting out unless a premium hand or push-fold state (gaining some prize money in the process) and then try to climb this out, but it would be much harder than if you go for it from the beginning of the bubble. While your stack is small, your chances of winning are flowing away with every chip you let to go.

So, which way you're going and which one you should go?

 

[Alex70793]

Interesting.
The thing is that most players playing in the tournament before getting into the prize zone think about how to get into it and earn money.
And when they get into the prize zone in the tournament, they think about how to take first place.
It's a strange way of thinking, but there's nothing strange about it, it just eases the pressure of money.

 

[fundiver199]

If you were a middling stack, you had to be a bit cautious and maybe take off some marginal spots on the bubble, and now you can go back to playing more normally. But its not like, you should now go totally out of control. In fact you have less fold equity now, because other small and medium stacks are less scared of busting. So now is not the time to run big bluffs.

You should also not be overly focused on making the next payjump though, especially not if its only a small one, and/or its far away. Instead you need to focus on accumulating chips by making solid +EV plays. If this results in you eventually winning the tournament or making a payjump, thats great, but your main focus should simply be to build up your stack.

 

[jordanbillie]

You have burst through the bubble, but not without its price. Your stack is rather small, 20-25bb.
What's next? There are hard way, easy way and compromise way:
- You can try your best to be the 1st. Screw the ICM, it's only all or nothing.
- Your folds now have +$EV and you can abuse the hell out of it. With over 20bb you could just outsit like 1/3 of players left. Easy money and no variance. But will you ever get close to the first place if you planning to play like this from the start?
- You can switch between the easy way and hard way. Sitting out unless a premium hand or push-fold state (gaining some prize money in the process) and then try to climb this out, but it would be much harder than if you go for it from the beginning of the bubble. While your stack is small, your chances of winning are flowing away with every chip you let to go.

So, which way you're going and which one you should go?

20-25 BB is not short at all at this stage of the MTT. You should identify where the next considerable pay jump is, aim for that as your next goal but do not compromise the main goal of winning the whole thing. See? It's a fine balance.

MTTs should be a flow of aggression in the right spots and survival to ensure higher payouts. The right balance of this aggressive/passive behavior is the key to winning MTTs.

 

[killing_random]

MTTs should be a flow of aggression in the right spots and survival to ensure higher payouts. The right balance of this aggressive/passive behavior is the key to winning MTTs.

Would u share that key???

 

[jordanbillie]

Would u share that key???

Sure!

See this thread:

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/general-poker-13/poker-philosophy-101-a-483112/

 

[jordanbillie]

P.S. I didn't vote because nothing felt approriate.

I play to have fun and accept the challenge of outwitting/strategizing a large pool of opponents. It's fun and rewarding.

 

[sharipov8090]

I think the path that we choose depends directly on the players who are currently sitting at the same table with you.it is for them that you will have to adjust your game.

 

[killing_random]

I think the path that we choose depends directly on the players who are currently sitting at the same table with you.it is for them that you will have to adjust your game.

You doesn't mean dance to their tune, right?

 

[killing_random]

Sure!

See this thread:

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/general-poker-13/poker-philosophy-101-a-483112/

I thought it would be something about relative stack sizes :stupido3:

 

[sharipov8090]

You doesn't mean dance to their tune, right?

Of course not.You must have the pipe.You decide whether they blow or you do.

 

[Johnasplay]

I'll go with balance. Play safer hand's till I became chip leader, and push afterwards.
In my opinion in this game it's only The First and the first in a long line of losers.

 

[Luan]

winning money is obvious and the most practical thing to do in the world of poker!

 

[foran]

that's why you have to manage your bankroll correctly, so that you always make the correct play for the jackpot.

 

[GRIN281289]

I build my game based on the players at my table and the amount of chips.

 

[Steve Deeble]

I play to win more than not it doesn’t happen so of course ITM is the next best thing.

 

[Zirkzee]

I would always play with ICM. At the end of the day you want to be + $ EV and you are not if you just look at + cEV. Even if you reach the final table as the ninth chip stack, few hands can turn everything upside down. You can also win the tournament as a short stack in the final table. In addition, the ICM not only decides whether you should fold or call, but in some situations the ICM also says that you can profitably go all-in with every starting hand. An example is when everyone has folded in front of you and you are in the small blind. You have more chips than the big blind. Then you can often go all in with any two even if you only have 32o on hand. Because you have a high fold equity. Often your opponent will only play the best 10% of all hands (66+, A9s, ATo +, KJs +). Against this hand range you still have 25.28% equity with 32o. Even if he calls and you lose, you are still in the tournament. Here you have to go all in with any two, anything else would be a mistake

 

[akmost]

If I make it to the money after that I play for the win but that doesn't mean that I go out of the line in every single hand.I think that I know when and against who I should apply pressure,
In the tournaments I participate there are not ICM considerations before the final table in order to take them into account!

I try to take risks for my tournament life prior to the bubble burst , my game approach is to arrive ITM or FT with a super healthy stack and not with a smallish stack and hope for a winning flip. I never sit out in order to get those ladders , it's something I don't like at all.

 

[freestocks]

I used to go for the win and lost too many times bad beat at the bubble.

Now I'd rather make something than nothing.

 

[filippfilm]

Usually you want to win , to prove your skills . But money is also very important, of course .

 

[Jon Poker]

When it comes to MTT poker, if we are trying to generate revenue then we play for the money. If you're playing for fun then play for the win.


Obviously if our focus is to make money then we are also playing to win. Playing for money for me involves a few things.-

Locking up cashes when we are super short around the bubble - some ROI is better than zero ROI

Making the most of deep runs - the deeper we go the more money we make.

Making the most if every FT. This particular subject is where I think alot of players lose heaps of money because they do not adjust accordingly. Final table icm is tough - and makes us play much tighter than mid game stages, and even tighter than final 2 table scenarios. When we are a middling stack on the final table we have to watch ourselves, play properly and secure money hops as shorter stack beneath us go broke. We have to avoid putting ourselves at risk in big preflop flips that could cost us lots of money. Same goes for being a top stack at the table - we can apply pressure to others and whatnot, but it's extremely important we protect our top chip position and try to secure a top 3 finish. When we are shorter (the shortest) stacked we can make moves and go for spots that will hopefully increase our chip stack and give us some breathing room.

I've been on tons of micro inal tables and seen countless individuals go from 1st or 2nd to getting busted in 8th or 9th place - effectively this costs them hundreds of dollars. In alot of $5 games 9th place can pay you anywhere from $70‐$90 while first place can pay you $600 or more - so coming in a huge stack, getting goofy, losing unnecessary flips and going broke too soon is a heart breaker.

I've said it dozens of times on this forum - next to poker tracker, icmizer is the BEST tool bar none for the serious MTT player. It will make leaps and bounds of differences in your FT game for sure. I used to make all the same common ft mistakes everyone else did until I got coaching and started to utilize this tool. Nowadays I have alot more 4th, 3rd and 1st place finishes than before. I said earlier we have to be passive and cautious at the FT, when we get to 4 handed play - thats where we can ramp up the aggression and really start to go for it. Sometimes this means we bust in 4th, sometimes we win the damn thing - it's all good either way.

The summary of the FT rant is to make the most of your situation. You've grinded your way this far, now it's up to you to secure the most money that you can.

Anyhow, that's basically it for me. I am playing for the money for sure - but anytime I register a tournament I'm also focused on doing what I can to win the thing - so the two go hand in hand.

 

[gryphon3005]

I like Fundiver's post about concentrating on making good +ev plays and building a stack. Post bubble when you start looking at pay jumps and where you rank and how many players are between you and the next jump you only add to then list of things taking up your attention. Better to clear the decks and your mind and focus on the task at hand. For me the task is the current hand. I ignore the tables and the tournament info and keep my attention on playing my hand. If I fold I watch the play to keep myself current on how the other players at my table are playing.

 

[casique31]

In the order that I want, win and fill myself with money. I have everything to gain knowledge, patience, skill, I lack a bit of luck and that is the order to follow.

 

[Jon Poker]

In the order that I want, win and fill myself with money. I have everything to gain knowledge, patience, skill, I lack a bit of luck and that is the order to follow.

You don't need luck to win at poker - even tournament poker. That's the beauty of the game

 

[DIMARIK]

Victory and money are important. One cannot exist without the other.
But to earn money, you have to win, every time, over and over again. Win to earn money. Earn money by winning.