MTT Tournament Play Question

champyun

champyun

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Recently, I was in a MTT tournament and we were down to 2 tables with 11-12 players. A really short stack moved all-in and was folded around to me. I look down at 9c8c in the cutoff. I decide to call, with the Button calling as well. The flop comes 9d-2c-3h. I decide to bet 2x the BB and the Button folds. I drag my bet back in and the all-in player ends up winning the hand. After a few moments, the Button player decides to give me a 'poker lesson', saying that I shouldn't have bet there without the nuts - that I should've checked it down. I'm thinking, "What are you talking about?"

Questions: How was I to know if I had the 'nuts' or not? How was I supposed to know what the Button has there? Sure, I have ideas, but again, I was wanting to isolate and get the all-in, head-up.

I would love to hear any thoughts on this play. Mistake? Correct?
 
DougPkrMonsta

DougPkrMonsta

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Recently, I was in a MTT tournament and we were down to 2 tables with 11-12 players. A really short stack moved all-in and was folded around to me. I look down at 9c8c in the cutoff. I decide to call, with the Button calling as well. The flop comes 9d-2c-3h. I decide to bet 2x the BB and the Button folds. I drag my bet back in and the all-in player ends up winning the hand. After a few moments, the Button player decides to give me a 'poker lesson', saying that I shouldn't have bet there without the nuts - that I should've checked it down. I'm thinking, "What are you talking about?"

Questions: How was I to know if I had the 'nuts' or not? How was I supposed to know what the Button has there? Sure, I have ideas, but again, I was wanting to isolate and get the all-in, head-up.

I would love to hear any thoughts on this play. Mistake? Correct?

I wouldn't have flat-called the raise pre-flop, if his range is that wide put in a small raise to isolate preflop. This is an above average flop so I don't blame you for betting and making a side-pot when you are likely ahead.

If the tournament is close to making the money/final table some people believe you should check it down to eliminate players (and never bet into a dry side pot, checking down the main pot unless super strong).

These same people will sometimes insist on paying the bubble boy and constantly ask to chop the prize pool and stop play (even with 12 players left).

You do not owe anyone an explanation and should note that this player is unlikely to be very strong in tournament strategy.

GL at the tables! :)
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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I see his logic and I used to think like that. His logic is that the more people in the pot the more likely it is that the short gets knocked out. But I think he was probably just frustrated. I think either checking or betting that flop is fine. I probably would bet.... But I don't think I would call pre
 
M

MakeUcryalot

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Recently, I was in a MTT tournament and we were down to 2 tables with 11-12 players. A really short stack moved all-in and was folded around to me. I look down at 9c8c in the cutoff. I decide to call, with the Button calling as well. The flop comes 9d-2c-3h. I decide to bet 2x the BB and the Button folds. I drag my bet back in and the all-in player ends up winning the hand. After a few moments, the Button player decides to give me a 'poker lesson', saying that I shouldn't have bet there without the nuts - that I should've checked it down. I'm thinking, "What are you talking about?"

Questions: How was I to know if I had the 'nuts' or not? How was I supposed to know what the Button has there? Sure, I have ideas, but again, I was wanting to isolate and get the all-in, head-up.

I would love to hear any thoughts on this play. Mistake? Correct?

Lol this willdefinitely sound rude but that was really stupid. At that point getting players out is more important than whatever cards you have.

1) it makes you look weak as ****. Its not a bad call but when you raised two bbs and he instantly sees what you have its not exactly good for you.

2)the correct answer to this is to check straight through to the show down to maximize the chances one of you wins the showdown, thusincreasing money or getting closer to it and the final table.

3)this move makes it clear you do not have too firm a grasp on poker theory and will use that to exploit you. Especially since you lost, which makes you the dick for causing a large problem. Villain wasnt a villain he was a teammate. His lesson was 100% correct. Don't raise in that situation unless you have a monster and choose to exploit the second caller for further value, and then when you instantly show your cards you become feared. Instead you made every person at your table mark you as green and write "doesnt understand poker, thinks in ridiculous short term".

That's just my opinion though lol
 
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coachlary69

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I was playing in a live tournament a few years ago and a similar situation happened. The flop went three way, I bet, another stack folded, and I lost to the short stack who had gone all in. The player who folded after the flop then spent the next 5 minutes telling me how I had made the wrong decision by betting the flop and that I should have checked it down. This player actually became a little aggressive and upset the more he talked about it. I later went back to the drawing board and understood what he meant. Had we both remained in the hand there's a 50 percent chance that one of us will be able to eliminate the short stack. By betting I forced him out and he actually had the better hand and the elimination of the short stack would have benefited both of us in terms of moving up with only 15 players left in the tournament. Had I not bet I would not have won or lost any more chips in the hand if we both just checked the hand down. It was a lesson learned. Plus, when I bet, I didn't have the nuts and I knew I didn't have the nuts. I was just trying to force him out of the hand to go heads up because I was just thinking about taking the short stacks chips but I wasn't thinking about position in the tournament.
 
B

BART777

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try to play in the sng, mt sng there are often similar to other situations, this experiense will be useful for tournaments
 
SBEP

SBEP

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He wanted for you both to check down the allin guy, possibly for one of you to hit the nuts and take the short stack out, but u had top pair on flop and i would have done the same thing, bet small to find out where im at, there was no mistake on your part, hes pissed coz mb he would have hit the nuts on the turn or river and take the pot, but he folded, so his pissed understandably :D so mb u should have checked, no F that, he should have called, and then im more then sure u would have checked the turn and river, with the button hitting the nuts and taking the allin guy out, but thats just my oppinion on this situaton :D
 
champyun

champyun

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Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. As I can see from your responses, everyone feels differently about the situation. I can see both sides of it, but I felt (at the time) I made the right decision. The more I think about it, the guy who wanted to give me a lesson, DID hit the turn or river and then HE would've won the short stack. Hmmm, I wanted to win it as well. Strategy is in the eye of the beholder. ;)
 
Shumkoolie

Shumkoolie

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Conceptually, you also have to take into consideration, at this stage of the tournament, your chip stack relative to the field. You were in late position, but you put yourself into a situation where you could have potentially been throwing away chips because what if the button decides to shove behind you? You just cost yourself however many blinds it was. Your hand, if the action was to you in the big blind there, is an autocall if it wasn't costing you much relative to your stack.

That's a great hand to play in many situations, but when you're close to a pay jump, or a final table, where the money jumps start to become significant, I'm finding a fold there.

But, the hand, as played, considering the call was fine. You flopped a pair, so you're ahead of that all-in player a good amount of the time, unless it was one of those players who you KNOW will shove only medium-big pairs, AK/AQ/AJ/KQ. There are some that play in the FRC that are like that. It's up to you to identify those tendencies.
 
Samuel Lee

Samuel Lee

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I wouldn't have played that hand. Usually when a short stack goes all in he has something pretty decent. That means Ax or pairs or BWs.
That hand is good but not against a short stack shove. So the better option here is to fold preflop.
 
A

asedu

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1. depends on BU plays before.
2. I think he ment some thing like QQ+ PRF & something more than having top pair of 9's agains a shove PRF +2 callers, since there is a good chance that most !decent! players will have a beter hands that 99 on flop or 98s PRF if they shove from UTG
 
Jim Brown

Jim Brown

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First of all, don't worry about lessons at the table. If the lecturer has half a brain they're not going to educate the fish. If they don't have half a brain well...

Second as far as being a "team" to get somebody out, just no.

Third, calling with speculative hands in late position may be ok, but you're going to want to look to get paid when you are deep stacked and in position. This more or less goes out the window when it's just a shorty all in.

So for this hand you should be letting it go pre, but betting the flop is fine. 2bb is pretty lol though
 
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