MTT late stages, played too aggressive?

[vox1er]

Hello all,


We are 18 players left in the big $55. I have got 13 bb most of the players have similar stacks.

I have got dealt Q-8s in the small blind everyone folds to me. I decided to go all in. The big blind (he covers me) snap calls me with A-9 the board did not help me and I have got busted. I have just got paid $700 the price jumps were significant. Should I have take a different approach? Should I have just limped?

Thank you.

 

[pabloT]

in my view you played the correct way he could fold and you would be c big and the antes, and it is a normal hand to go all in under these conditions ..

 

[JJP]

Your shove is 100% a +chip EV decision. However you will only get this deep so often so I probably would have limped or folded in this spot. You still have fold equity vs opens at this stack size, so I would rather save chips to shove over an lp or mp raise.

Your shove is a +EV play tho

 

[Erpherk]

Q high is good there a lot of times so a jam is not out of line, If you were playing to ladder then maybe find a fold and wait for a better spot. I noticed when everyone is on the short stack late tourney you have to tighten up also and wait for a good spot.

 

[Lazerx]

limp

i think i woulda limped q 8 quite a range.can always fold or then shove if you woulda limped maybe he woulda shoved and saved you the all in
\

 

[jadestem]

With 13 bb I would probably limp/fold here, especially if your stack is relatively even with a lot of the other stacks. You can make it another couple orbits before you are truly in desperation mode, giving you 20-25 hands to find a better spot. Plus it gives other people more time to bust allowing you to potentially ladder up.

 

[gryphon3005]

You basically answered your own question. You said the pay jumps were significant. gambling on Q8s didn't make a lot of sense when survival is the key at this stage. You asked if you should have limped like you felt compelled to bet because everyone else folded. You should have folded like all the other players.

 

[Joco413]

I don't think Q8 is a good enough hand to go all in with. You could have raised 2x to gain information. He would have either called or less likely raised all in. If he raises all in you can easily fold but if he calls depending on the flop you can make plays.

All in all yes you were a bit too aggressive and your opponent read that you were after his BB. It wasn't a bad play but it was predictable.

 

[kowrip]

I'd like to see the payout structure to give a better opinion. However, you were in the SB with a marginal hand. Your stack was fairly short at 13BB, but certainly not in desperation territory. If you folded, you'd still have 12.5BB and have an entire orbit to play. In addition, I find it easier to shove from EP or MP since there are less people who can shove in front of you. Based on the information provided, I'd probably fold Q8s and look for a better hand to push before I had to pay the next BB.

 

[sedlacekj]

I like calling here to see the flop. It costs you 1/2 a BB, and if the BB raises large, you can fold. If the BB checks, then you see a cheap flop and make a new decision from there. (keep going if you see Q with no over cards or 2 flush cards). If the BB min raises your limp, you could call still to see the flop. Several reasons are:

1. You need to play a hand sometime soon, or you will blind out. Since you have a playable hand in your range, you should play it. a Q8s is great for CO, BU, SB or BB position. It's a really good in the SB, so you need to generally play this hand from the SB. You will win more times than lose with Q8s in this situation.
2. 13 BB is enough that it is not necessary to go all-in or fold. It is an option, but not necessary. You can still creatively play 3-4 BB.
3. You are in the SB, so limping is normal in this position with your full range.
4. You don't need to raise for info here, because if you did and the BB calls, that won't tell you if you are ahead or behind. If he 3-bets your raise enough to put you 1/2 all in or more, sure that would inform, but a call not so much.
5. You probably need a strong pair or AKs to go all in here, and I don't recommend doing it with AK, either, but many people do.
6. Each level you go up in the money at this stage increases your payout significantly, so you need to tighten up instead of loosening up at this point. If you don't have to go all-in, don't.

 

[Ryan Laplante]

Hello all,


We are 18 players left in the big $55. I have got 13 bb most of the players have similar stacks.

I have got dealt Q-8s in the small blind everyone folds to me. I decided to go all in. The big blind (he covers me) snap calls me with A-9 the board did not help me and I have got busted. I have just got paid $700 the price jumps were significant. Should I have take a different approach? Should I have just limped?

Thank you.

Definitely the best decision.

 

[AJantwan]

It depends a little. As others have pointed out, the move was the correct move in terms of being +EV and based on ICM.

Where the "depends" comes in is how often you play at this level and how often you cash. If, say, this were one of the few times I had played at this level recently or I hadn't cashed recently, I'd be more tempted to play it safe. It's not the mathematically correct play style, but we're humans, and having a shot at a decent cash when you haven't had one in a while matters to us humans.

But if you play a lot and are a winning player, then pushing here is fine. Yes, it's going to increase your chances of busting out, but it's a +EV move and if you keep making these moves, they will generate more profit in the long run.

Stats show that the most profitable tournament players actually cash less often. But when they do, it's more.

 

[TravelerLloyd]

Aggressive For This Style

Well let me explain how this advice is not right for those aggressive folks I play against. Like you I would love to limp with a Q9 o0r Q8s from the small blind, but hey are so aggressive and steal all the blinds from me when I play, every hand is a raise. That puts me all in or about 3/4 of my stack in which I might as well go all in.

13BB is not enough when they are calling you are re-raising you and check raising you on every hand, flop, turn and river. In this case it never gets to the flop without a raise over the top. Even if I come in with a raise, they re-raise me from any position, just total disrespect unless I call all in.

3 bet a raise, my friend in MTT tournament they are 10 Betting and I might as well go all in with 13 on the table. There is no 3-4 BB betting here, everything is all or nothing.

I called allin with AK and AT called me and took the pot down when the flop came A2T and the turn was 3 and the river was 9. They are calling all in with inferior hands and winning, when they can do it every hand and my blinds stack is 13 and theirs is like 30BB

You are correct I went all in with AK and it lost gib time. AK is one of those hands you have to be in position to go with or hit the flop and hope they don't call all the way to the river. I had some call all my bets and raises to the river to catch a straight.

I don't know how to handle that type of player when it seems like it was everyone at the finale table picking on me and teaming up on me. It was like I had a bounty on me or something!

I like calling here to see the flop. It costs you 1/2 a BB, and if the BB raises large, you can fold. If the BB checks, then you see a cheap flop and make a new decision from there. (keep going if you see Q with no over cards or 2 flush cards). If the BB min raises your limp, you could call still to see the flop. Several reasons are:

When you tighten up, they start stealing all the blonds when they are $5000/$10000 and the ante has $6,000 or $7,000 in it pre flop.

1. You need to play a hand sometime soon, or you will blind out. Since you have a playable hand in your range, you should play it. a Q8s is great for CO, BU, SB or BB position. It's a really good in the SB, so you need to generally play this hand from the SB. You will win more times than lose with Q8s in this situation.
2. 13 BB is enough that it is not necessary to go all-in or fold. It is an option, but not necessary. You can still creatively play 3-4 BB.
3. You are in the SB, so limping is normal in this position with your full range.
4. You don't need to raise for info here, because if you did and the BB calls, that won't tell you if you are ahead or behind. If he 3-bets your raise enough to put you 1/2 all in or more, sure that would inform, but a call not so much.
5. You probably need a strong pair or AKs to go all in here, and I don't recommend doing it with AK, either, but many people do.
6. Each level you go up in the money at this stage increases your payout significantly, so you need to tighten up instead of loosening up at this point. If you don't have to go all-in, don't.

 

[neafana]

+EV play. SB with Q8s is a very good card. If you play for the first 3 places you should shove every time in this spot. I think you know this. Most probably you wouldn't have asked this if you had won the hand

 

[0546474]

I would still wait for the best hand, in order to go all-in !!!

 

[foran]

if you hurt him or you eliminated him it was push, but if you did damage he was going to pay you with an open range was fold.

 

[biosstar]

I think with 13BB your stack was big enough to fold and wait for a way better hand. The winning chance of Q8 at 2 players in the game is about 51%. In that late stage of the tournament I would have played tighter. By the way: If 7Players were folding their hand it is really possible that the player beside you had a better hand than you.