Knockout mistakes?

Aleks75

Aleks75

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Good day to all!:hello:
Yesterday on PS in the freeroll, I received a tournament $ 11 .:thrasher: I wanted to play a knockout game for $ 2.2. I realized late that a different strategy was needed for this game-the result was that I was knocked out 4 times because of my mistakes(opponents come in a wider range).:pcguru:I would like to ask for advice,how should I have played?.Push on the flop or fold on the turn?:joyman:Don't judge too harshly-I'm still a newbie.)):star:
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/624TH0LTS
 
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Mahdi

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For starters you should'nt be in the pot :D
T9o not a great hand from a middle position
Second don't just limp, as more people you have on the pot as more difficult to win it
 
0546474

0546474

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I agree with the previous comment, you shouldn't have entered this pot with this hand and from this position !!!
 
Aleks75

Aleks75

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I agree with the previous comment, you shouldn't have entered this pot with this hand and from this position !!!
Hi!
A friend showed me through Equilab why I should not have entered from T9(not included in the range of the middle position).Until today, I didn't even know about such a program.) I'm surprised at you-how you keep all these dipazons, and even playing at 12-20 tables.4-6 is enough for me.)
 
VikyGia

VikyGia

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It is good to make good decisions, analyze your hand preflop, and consider all your projects before entering.
 
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fundiver199

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First of all there is a sub forum for hand analysis, so please post there next time. Anyways on to the hand:

Preflop
This is just an easy fold. Not going to go deeply into this, but until you get your freeflop ranges sorted and stop limping into pots from other seats than small blind, these mistakes are going to carry over to postflop and prevent you from seeing great results.

Flop
You got bailed out by flopping the nuts, which is obviously a great situation. Now its only a question of, how can you get your stack in the most profitable way, and there are two reasonable ways to do it. You can check with intentions to check-jam, if someone behind you takes the bait. The advantage of that play is, that it gives the players behind a chance to bluff and the players in between a chance to call, if which case you "trapped" those chips in the pot. The disadvantage is, it might get checked through.

The less fancy and safer option is to do, what you did, which is to simply make a bet, when the action came to you. I do prefer a slighly smaller sizing though. When you bet full pot, you might scare away some hands, that are drawing very thin, and that you want to get paid by. You still managed to get two callers though, which was a great result.

Turn
Not the best turn card, since it completed the flushdraw, but with less than a half pot sized bet left behind, I agree with your decision to get it in. Yes sometimes you will be drawing dead against a flush, but you are not going to check-fold, and I think, its more likely, that someone will call with worse than get it in themselfes. And for that reason I dont want the turn to get checked through, and now maybe god forbid yet another diamond rolls of on the river, and you end up losing to a hand like Q9 with the 9 of diamonds.

Results
The replayer dont show the results, which by the way I like, since it gives a more unbiased feedback. However you have kind of announced, that you lost the hand, so presumably someone either had a flush, or they rivered a better straight with AT. And whichever it was, this is just a cooler, or in the case of AT a bad beat.

Nearly all new poker players worry a lot about coolers and bad beat. And yes they suck, when they happen. But they are part of the game, we can not avoid them, and there is nothing to be learned from them. The things to be learned from this hand is, what happened, before someone put a cooler or bad beat on you.

Preflop you should have folded, and on the flop I would like to see either a check-raise or a somewhat smaller bet. Some might say, that this dont matter, because you should not have been in the hand to begin with. But a similar situation could also occur, if you were in the blinds, and then you should be in the hand, and postflop would play out in a similar way. So there is still something to be learned from postflop, even if you should have folded preflop.
 
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fundiver199

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Just to illustrate my point about coolers and bad beats, here is, how one of the MTTs from my last session ended. This was a 4,4$ PKO on pokerstars, so very similar to the one, you played, just for slightly more money. We were down to the last 10 players, which some call "the final table bubble", and I was one of the shortest stacks with around 20BB. I opened 99 on BTN, and BB, who was the chip leader, put me all in. I called, and this is, what happened:

CardsChat Poker Hands Converter

A hand like this puts a lot of people on tilt. And I am not going to lie. I would also have preferred to win it, because that would have given me a real chance to win the tournament or at least reach the top places. But I know, I am not folding 99 in this situation, and then the rest just is, what it is.

And I would rather have him flip over a hand like the one, he had, instead of KK, because that gave me a much better chance to win. It was in fact a great situation for me, which just did not work out this time. And so was flopping a straight in a multiway pot for you. My point is, that even, when we get ourselfes into a great situation, we are not going to win every single time, unless its on the river, and we have the nuts. Coolers and bad beats are part of poker, and we need to learn to just shrug them off.
 
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dorynel7

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its a mistake for the start limping 910o out of position. GL
 
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Lucky River

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In a knockout tournament, most players play a wider range, so we have to adjust to them and play a narrow range then we will often be ahead of them with the best hands and get knocked out.
 
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1nsomn1a

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When playing in knockout tournaments, keep in mind that any random bad beat can end your participation in the tournament, so be careful investing all your chips, you can expand the call range when your opponent has a good reward for knocking out.:)
 
LFC_yllnwa

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What is the result of this distribution? Did you lose or did you win? If you lost, did you lose against the flush or the high straight? I can't understand it. Knockout poker and regular poker for people are absolutely 2 different games, especially when we talk about micro-limits... The percentage of crazy players and people, who catch knockouts is very high... I can't say, that you didn't play correctly with T9.. This is a good attempt to enter the game, but you misjudged the situation on the flop and did not play correctly.. Overclocking the pot on the table, when there are a lot of players in the game + the cards on the table are very dangerous for you.... and you have a lower-than-average pot at the table.. Yes, you have a ready-made combination on the table, but a flush-draw is open on the table and a straight-draw is older, than yours... Therefore, even an all-in on the flop will not give you anything and you can't beat anyone on the flop, when you have a small pot, especially in knockout poker..
 
Aleks75

Aleks75

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What is the result of this distribution? Did you lose or did you win? If you lost, did you lose against the flush or the high straight? I can't understand it. Knockout poker and regular poker for people are absolutely 2 different games, especially when we talk about micro-limits... The percentage of crazy players and people, who catch knockouts is very high... I can't say, that you didn't play correctly with T9.. This is a good attempt to enter the game, but you misjudged the situation on the flop and did not play correctly.. Overclocking the pot on the table, when there are a lot of players in the game + the cards on the table are very dangerous for you.... and you have a lower-than-average pot at the table.. Yes, you have a ready-made combination on the table, but a flush-draw is open on the table and a straight-draw is older, than yours... Therefore, even an all-in on the flop will not give you anything and you can't beat anyone on the flop, when you have a small pot, especially in knockout poker..
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Hi!
I haven't fully figured out the replay from Cardchat yet-the result doesn't work.The player on CO took the pot with ATo, the player on Btn also lost with KK.
 
partz

partz

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Most of the people play with strong hands KO poker and it seems it makes sense to do it
 
Aleks75

Aleks75

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Just to illustrate my point about coolers and bad beats, here is, how one of the MTTs from my last session ended. This was a 4,4$ PKO on PokerStars, so very similar to the one, you played, just for slightly more money. We were down to the last 10 players, which some call "the final table bubble", and I was one of the shortest stacks with around 20BB. I opened 99 on BTN, and BB, who was the chip leader, put me all in. I called, and this is, what happened:

CardsChat Poker Hands Converter

A hand like this puts a lot of people on tilt. And I am not going to lie. I would also have preferred to win it, because that would have given me a real chance to win the tournament or at least reach the top places. But I know, I am not folding 99 in this situation, and then the rest just is, what it is.

And I would rather have him flip over a hand like the one, he had, instead of KK, because that gave me a much better chance to win. It was in fact a great situation for me, which just did not work out this time. And so was flopping a straight in a multiway pot for you. My point is, that even, when we get ourselfes into a great situation, we are not going to win every single time, unless its on the river, and we have the nuts. Coolers and bad beats are part of poker, and we need to learn to just shrug them off.
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Hi, !!!Thank you for a detailed and thorough analysis of my game and for the time spent.I am once again glad that I entered Cardchat(although I originally entered for the sake of passwords for freerolls)-here people objectively explain your mistakes..Thank you again!!!And at the expense of your hand, I don't understand how a player with bb came with 72o(this is the weakest hand of all possible).And the ranges of openreise and 3bet have just begun to study, ((
 
Aleks75

Aleks75

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Most of the people play with strong hands KO poker and it seems it makes sense to do it
Hi! :hello:
At one time I hated the AA hand-I lost 60%(to fish with garbage).:boxing:
 
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fundiver199

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I don't understand how a player with bb came with 72o(this is the weakest hand of all possible).

He had been playing like a LAG bordering on maniac with my HUD showing VPIP 41 / PFR 31 over 74 hands, so I was fully expecting him to jam light, but I was of course very surpriced to see him flip over 72o. My best guess is, he did it for fun, and because he could afford to lose. Maybe he also thought, I was going to fold to much, because I was scared of busting on "the final table bubble", which is a mistake, many people make.

I looked him up on sharkscope, and he is actually a winning microstakes player with around 8.000 events under his belt and a total profit of several tousind dollars. He also went on to win this tournament for a total profit of 300+ dollars including bounties. So I guess, it just goes to prove, that even overall winning players sometimes step out of line and do things, they know are not good strategy :)
 
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fundiver199

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The player on CO took the pot with ATo, the player on Btn also lost with KK.

In that case you got your chips in super good with both opponents having a maximum of 10 outs between them, if one of them had a diamond. So going back to the 99 vs. 72o hand, I shared, would you rather have seen one of them flip over a flush, so that you were drawing dead? Of course not, and then you just have to trust, that variance will take care of itself over the long run :)
 
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Zirkzee

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In the early stages of the tournament, knocking a player out and receiving a bounty carries more value than it does later in the tournament. This is because at the start of the tournament, you're really not worth that much. For example, if you buy into a $24 +$2 bounty tournament, i might estimate that i am worth $35 in that tournament. In other words, right when I take my seat in that event, i expect to win an average of $9 off of my initial tournament buy-in. So if i played 10,000 times, i would expect to cash for a gross total of $350,000 (including bounties), make sense? that's my expected value.
 
LFC_yllnwa

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Hi!
I haven't fully figured out the replay from Cardchat yet-the result doesn't work.The player on CO took the pot with ATo, the player on Btn also lost with KK.

The player on the button, who is the leader of the table with a good advantage of chips, has crazy hand strength and plays very weakly and incorrectly, I am absolutely not surprised by the results and his huge loss... In this hand, attention is paid to your hand only because you misjudged the flop and went on the attack..

From your side, I would pay attention to the leader and how he plays his KK... His huge pot makes it easy to knock you out on the preflop or take the flop/turn, of course, it is not a fact, that the opponent will fold, when he has a straight-draw, but the pressure on the button table can be huge and his hand is a great help for this, but he plays absolutely stupid and when he thinks he is smarter than everyone, he his punished... There is nothing surprising....: (
 
Bnobob

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watch Andre akkari's YouTube reviews (for beginners:joyman:
 
VikyGia

VikyGia

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Opinion

este tipo de torneo es muy bueno para poder recibir recompensas, sin embargo hay que tratar de esperar buenas cartas para lograr algo.
 
gloemcesar

gloemcesar

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I agree with eveybody that you shouldn't play T9off in that position and limping it just make it worst. you have a good flip (straigth) but with a flush draw in the flop make hard a c-bet couse the diamonds will call you and a multiway spot is tricky. the turn and river kill your flip on the flop its happens but the lesson here is that you put yourself in a complicated situation with that trashy hand in that position. but no matter is the mistakes that make us strong so keep it up y go for it next time. remember not involving in complicated situations, let it pass that hand y play another.
 
rock0001

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i dont agree with your preflop and flop play. in preflop a hand like 910 offsuit isnt worth playing in middle position but since utg limps i dont think limping is a terrible mistake. also i dont like your bet on the flop because if you have the absolute nuts why did you make such a big pot bet? i would understand if there was 3 diamonds on the board however with only 2 of them there is very little risk that any of your opponents will have 2 diamonds. so by making such a big bet villains with hands like k10 or qk will most likely fold their hands losing your opportunity to win more chips. your shove after the turn is logical since you are already pot commited and the only risk is that you are losing against a flush.
 
Aleks75

Aleks75

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i dont agree with your preflop and flop play. in preflop a hand like 910 offsuit isnt worth playing in middle position but since utg limps i dont think limping is a terrible mistake. also i dont like your bet on the flop because if you have the absolute nuts why did you make such a big pot bet? i would understand if there was 3 diamonds on the board however with only 2 of them there is very little risk that any of your opponents will have 2 diamonds. so by making such a big bet villains with hands like k10 or qk will most likely fold their hands losing your opportunity to win more chips. your shove after the turn is logical since you are already pot commited and the only risk is that you are losing against a flush.
Good afternoon!
Thank you for your response! I realized that it was a mistake-I went wrong in the range of the position and incorrect sizing on the streets, especially on the flop.
 
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