I've noticed that some technically bad players do well assumingly due to aggression?

[Reptar7]

Depending on the game, blinds, and stacks, using your chips like a big club can be very effective. Double or Nothings are a great example. People hold on to their chips so tight early on that you can just be aggressive and take the game away from them.

 

[hobonc]

You get these guys with patience, solid play and trapping. This is the place for a trap. They'll do your betting for you... till the pounce.

-

This^

When you are only playing the most premium hands this task becomes more difficult. If they range you in, they are prepared to slam on brakes.

 

[cotta777]

Trapping is pretty standard for experienced players. alot of players we come up against will have the same beliefs that they can get payed off with strong hands.

I agree that by paying strong hands and made hands in position will allow us to get payed off and also be bet into...

but in order for us to maximise our value from the game we need to target the regs...

Q. How do we target the regs
A. We build up a solid tight image for the first 30 mins 6max or hour in 9max targetting bad or aggressive players in position and playing honest TAG poker.

We can then adjust and target the regs gaining credit for our style and getting the most from our playable equity/semi bluff/floating hands
a combination of either improving in the hand or taking it down will give us +EV most of the time for a period of time

We can then adjust back to targetting lags in position or bad players. this is especially good for 6 max as we have more spots with bad players.

Going back to my original post... this is how table selection can benifit us on small BR's
if we look long enough there will always be a table we can use this strategy and if its not working find a table with the right dynamics for this to work..


And one last thing - If we can get inside the average reg's mind - we know they are capable of folding because they feel most the time a player is not bluffing in a certain spot and is strong.
That in itself is something we can work on as an exploitive play against the average Reg

 

[loafes]

I recently played an MTT (6 max but admittedly a small field) On the bubble I had chips so I relentlessly ran over the table and everyone let me get away with it I also recall one hand where (this was a cam table) I have AJ and make tptk end up just playing it strong getting all in and he also had TPTK so we chopped, but the torrent of abuse he had with his friend about how he was so happy, he thought AJ was the nuts and figured he was going to take my chips, though I knew he wast strong.

Later when the final table came I was chip leader with only one player with a similar stack size. Again I just relentlessly ran over the table and everyone let me do it. When suddenly a player limps UTG who's been playing a pretty snug game and would usually come in for a raise, my alarm bells started going off here since he knows that I'd been punishing limping. I had AJ suited and just called behind then let him take it away post flop, I might of been best but to me this just screamed trap. There were several times at the final table where players seemed to think they were going to trap me but I always sniffed them out so easily. The thing is I find that not paying off big hands when playing a LAG style is soo much fun, it really tilts the other players when they wait for hands thinking "this morons bound to pay me off" then you just fold and they get real tilted.

needless to say I crushed that tournament, the entire final table I had over 150-110 BBs and handed my opponents had like 12BBs each

 

[samitheman99]

thats not aggression , its just pure luck due to 5tupidity, cant stand it or them

 

[chauncey274]

both Playing mtt's and watching tutorials at levels such as $55.00 or $109.00 as an example, online I have come across players well maniacs who are technically bad players, but play consistantly doing reasonably well/ok
theirs not alot of positional sense and they will play hands easily dominated and blatently abusing their image and getting away with it, they are just betting alot of boards heavy,
occasionally they will get caught out but for the most part they are stacking nice and run deep (if they dont hang themselves)

I know some top players are capable of playing any two cards in a good spot and shoving air or betting large percentages of their stack in some situations
but this is different,
It's basically players who are logically not thinking anything other than this guy will fold if I bet big and alot of players are willing to let someone keep getting away with it rather than risk a stack that they can easilly add to in better spots.

Do you feel this relentless style can be profitable? or are they likely relitively knew players who have run really well built a bit of a bankroll up and are yet to run extremely bad?
its almost as if not knowing much about the game has done them a favour.

IMO I would say for a fact alot of players will go broke or decrease their win rates playing a stupid overly kind of thoughtless aggression factor...

If these guys are at a weak table where people non-stop fold to their bets, then yes it is profitable. Those kinds of tables aren't easy to come by though. I've been at a few tables where I realized that 4 of the other 5 players folded to every single bet unless they had a nut flush draw, a set, or top pair great kicker. So if you were watching me at that table you were probably wondering why i was playing so many pots and betting so much pre-flop. I was doing that cause they would call alot of bets pre-flop with sub par hands, I guess hoping for a magical flop, and then would fold 90% of the time to a cbet. If they called my cbet and there was a flush draw on the board i kept betting to the river unless the flush draw hit. They'd call every bet and fold on the river like clock work.

Maybe the guys you were watching, if they were making money, were alot more calculated then you thought. Or maybe they were just running lucky.

 

[cotta777]

If these guys are at a weak table where people non-stop fold to their bets, then yes it is profitable. Those kinds of tables aren't easy to come by though. I've been at a few tables where I realized that 4 of the other 5 players folded to every single bet unless they had a nut flush draw, a set, or top pair great kicker. So if you were watching me at that table you were probably wondering why i was playing so many pots and betting so much pre-flop. I was doing that cause they would call alot of bets pre-flop with sub par hands, I guess hoping for a magical flop, and then would fold 90% of the time to a cbet. If they called my cbet and there was a flush draw on the board i kept betting to the river unless the flush draw hit. They'd call every bet and fold on the river like clock work.

Maybe the guys you were watching, if they were making money, were alot more calculated then you thought. Or maybe they were just running lucky.

I agree with the barrelling I think if the player is on a draw then you can take it down on the river enough of the time for it to be a plus EV play.
I always semi bluff with my equity hands if my hands per hour aren't to high with the intention of improving or potentially taking it on the river if Im being check called all the way.
''unless they are a good player or there are potential strong holdings from the flop based on pre flop action and likely range''
you can become +EV very comfortably from this particular situation.

umm also On pokerstars I Think we can almost always find a table we like (other sites it can be hard), some players are made for each other, their style compliments our style and it can allow us to either play our game more/take advantage of a style we exploit pretty well, the stack sizes are even or small to our left, and we can get comfortable.
Other tables may be higher variance players stacking 200BB to our 100BB causing us problems or not allowing us to control the pots, effectively making us play their game.
At this point I usualy leave the table and find a table I can play my A game and capitalise on my strong points - Or If I feel they are pretty bad loose I'l stick around and try to get payed off

 

[The Nuder]

Do you feel this relentless style can be profitable?

It isn't sustainable long term so it can't really be relentless. I tend not to get too bothered by this style. They'll do the leg work then you can double up when you have the right hand. Most of the tournaments I've won (which admittedly isn't a huge number - but enough to generalise) I've come from nowhere - twice from being down to about just 1 BB. But I've never led a tournament early and then won, I think crazy aggression is unnecessary.

 

[bkniefel]

I would like to know where you are you are obtain this information. Please inform the forum on this matter as im sure most people would care to know. People who play that way are not profitable in the long stretch. Just focus on your game and realize that poker is an evolving game.

 

[JusSumguy]

Or maybe they were just running lucky.

chauncey? As in Chauncy Gardener?

-

 

[Raving Lunatic]

Sooner or later they will get caught with their hand in the cookie jar when someone that plays with skill figures out what they are doing.

Aggression is like luck sooner or later its going to fail you. Just be patience they will run into a wall sooner or later. If I run into one of these players I usually just sit back fold my hands unless I get something really good. I like to check/raise these guys when I can.

You get into a hand with them check to them when they raise you raise them back. I have noticed a few people I have done this to it confuses them.

 

[almcarthur]

Aggression

Part of the game against even strong players. It's about when you are are aggressive that pays off.

 

[Jair83]

both Playing mtt's and watching tutorials at levels such as $55.00 or $109.00 as an example, online I have come across players well maniacs who are technically bad players, but play consistantly doing reasonably well/ok
theirs not alot of positional sense and they will play hands easily dominated and blatently abusing their image and getting away with it, they are just betting alot of boards heavy,
occasionally they will get caught out but for the most part they are stacking nice and run deep (if they dont hang themselves)

I know some top players are capable of playing any two cards in a good spot and shoving air or betting large percentages of their stack in some situations
but this is different,
It's basically players who are logically not thinking anything other than this guy will fold if I bet big and alot of players are willing to let someone keep getting away with it rather than risk a stack that they can easilly add to in better spots.

Do you feel this relentless style can be profitable? or are they likely relitively knew players who have run really well built a bit of a bankroll up and are yet to run extremely bad?
its almost as if not knowing much about the game has done them a favour.

IMO I would say for a fact alot of players will go broke or decrease their win rates playing a stupid overly kind of thoughtless aggression factor...

this only do that kind of players you have a Lot of bankrol, but surely someone who is emepezando and this reasoning and managing well their brankrol not stupido As would be so crazy to play aggressive Etc among other forms of play,

 

[Interceptor]

They are throwing money at You !
You can only be annoyed if you don't play for money, but for principle

Maybe true, but unbeliavable they are winning the pots with 2,8 unsuited , against AA or AK, calling, reraising and winning. Russians usually, (no offence to the russians, not all players from there are bad players)

 

[cpgd176]

Generally, this players will fade out. They are newish players that have limited experience playing this style. It is easy for solid players to exploit this, such as checking strong hands to them and knowing they will either bluff a lot of the time or they will try get value from the top pair no kicker hands. It can be very frustrating playing versus these players but also extremely profitable. Sit tight, wait for big hands and trap/isolate them. (at the same time, you can't be too worries about just one players at a table so be careful when trying to trap them)

 

[indahood193]

aggressive players are just so much harder to play against than nits. it is a fact. if you have a pro who's a very good player but a nit at your table, i dunnoo say someone like a Greenstein, okay he knows what he is doing and you would ideally stay out of his way but he isn't a player that would intimidate you or boss a table. nowadays 90% of the best tourny players are very aggressive. you get some very good nits who are comfortable playing short stacks as well as big ones, but don't change their style a lot in between. these players can 100% make money and win but imo you have to be a better player to be a nit and win than be a very aggro player and win. if you get what i mean.


for example last night i was playing in an $11 tourny, just an mtt filled with a lot of okay players, decent percentage of bad players and some good players but not really any great ones. some times i will play very agressive, but i think it is vitally important to work out how your table is playing 1st. for example of there is a spewy calling station donk to your left it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to be raising every hand. however if you have 2 nits in the blinds it does. getting back to the question when i got to the final table there was this kind of weird spewy aggro guy to my left. with 10 left he limped AA sb v bb and allowed me to double up with my Q 4o flopping 2 pair lol. i had 12 bb's and would have insta folded to a raise. he then proclaimed 'i will get them back.' tbf he ko'd me in 4th but i shoved sb v bb K Qo and he picked up AA. must be nice hehe. but that is besides the point. at the start of the FT i tried to play loose. he would flat my open which is pretty terrible considering i had 25-30 bb's. he should either be 3 betting or folding. then the next hand he 4.5x raises my open. it was clear to me that he had A LOT of fundamental flaws in his game. did this mean he was easy to play against? no way. did this mean he was a poor player? this is hard to answer, i mean i will play v some players who play by the book. 3 bet shove good hands. play in position. fold usually correctly blah blah blah. but these players some times just end up blinding away and not FTing. however, the aforementioned player, the spewy aggro guy is always going to have a good chance of winning if he goes deep because he will play in such a weird style that is awkward for any style to play against. he will open 4x and have players shove hands that are so obviously behind his opening range in to him. he will have players tighten up to his right so he can 3x open his 9 6o.


hope this is the kind of answer you were looking for. imo i think i have almost come to the realization that there is no 100% correct way to play poker. the nit who always gets it in good but lets himself be blinded away to 2 bb's and has 5 players call his shove with AA or the aggro guy who flats an utg raise with 7 6o from mp and re raises top pair. of course the best style is an aggressive one with sound fundamentals like not 4x opening QQ but sometimes this weird style of player can win tournaments and tbh i wouldn't be surprised if they did again in the future, despite their blatant flaws. spewy aggros will always have a chance. weak, spewy nits will win NOTHING.

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

Against aggressive players i only play monsters, because its mostly an easy all in for me. I dont like to play middle cards because when you call a raise and dont flop some uesfull hands you throw your money away.

so then you've stopped playing your game and made it even easier for the aggressive players to dominate you. It will be very obvious to them when they should fold to you, and the rest of the time they can raise you off your medium strength hands with rags. you'll just be sitting around waiting for the nuts while they are winning most the chips. yes, sometimes they'll lose pots but they'll win so many more with their aggression that they will come out far ahead.

Poker is about always being able to change gears to fit new situations. Now, I'll admit having these guys to your left is a bummer...but then you just need to find a viable counter tactic and test it out. then, once they've seen you do that a couple times, pick a different tactic....it's cat and mouse.

 

[cotta777]

so then you've stopped playing your game and made it even easier for the aggressive players to dominate you. It will be very obvious to them when they should fold to you, and the rest of the time they can raise you off your medium strength hands with rags. you'll just be sitting around waiting for the nuts while they are winning most the chips. yes, sometimes they'll lose pots but they'll win so many more with their aggression that they will come out far ahead.

Poker is about always being able to change gears to fit new situations. Now, I'll admit having these guys to your left is a bummer...but then you just need to find a viable counter tactic and test it out. then, once they've seen you do that a couple times, pick a different tactic....it's cat and mouse.

I agree, we should never get into a trend of only ever playing my hand this way or big hands that way etc.
To make substantial +EV profit we need to be exploiting and looking at ranges. I understand that some aggressive players will make some players uncomfortable, but you have to fight back and be prepared to 3-bet (at least) against these players opening from mid to late.
They in most cases dont like having aggression back at them because they are so use to being the aggressor. Unless they are superior to you it will shut them down