Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
at that point 'play for win' by making a poor decision would not be correct at all.
besides even finished in 4th (but he knew that would happen? ... more ridiculousness)
at that point 'play for win' by making a poor decision would not be correct at all.
besides even finished in 4th (but he knew that would happen? ... more ridiculousness)
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
You might actually learn something if you learned how to listen. Just a thought...
R
Rational Madman
Legend
Platinum Level
You and I will get along well. You do the listening, I do the talking.
darkassassin89
Legend
Silver Level
Sets are difficult to read. Any set wins on the turn. If he was not holding AA then a river A or 10 would give him the win. In the end the turn is a cooler. Imagine he calls the turn instead of shove... River is a T. Still a cooler.
Just a perfect hand for AA.
Just a perfect hand for AA.
Steve1821
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Just to let you know guys I know it's a cooler and he's going to lose chips but my point was did he at to go all in on turn! When you look at the chip stacks at both these players compared to the rest should he have not just called or a smaller reraise! Who knows if the other guy with the set would have reraised all in on the turn or pushed all in on the river! So my point was "could john have saved chips" and this should of been the title really!
Zorba
27
Platinum Level
What, a player of your calibre doesn't watch the wsop.
As the best poker player on the Earth (your description not mine) you would know best, but as that is not true you would do good by following Poker Orrifice's advise, he actually is a good thinking player, not a braggart.
Mahalo.
:top:
BriceNice
Rock Star
Silver Level
saying someone would never do something in a certain situation is the best way to get yourself felted. Gotta take EVERY possibility into consideration.
P
ph_il
...
Silver Level
+1
How did the guy with 4 cards (AATT) lose to the guy with only 3 cards (AAA)?
Makes no sense.
C
colbear
Visionary
Silver Level
agree
I did not watch the hand but from your explanation I assume he was far from the nuts .So yes I tend to try and stay small ball with other chip leaders unless I know I have them . Aggressive to others but not leaders depending on how they are playing of coarse . Unless of coarse I have the nuts or at least close to it . If I am smaller stack I might be more aggressive but as co leader there is no need to risk your game life on over aggression . A raise is fine but no need for risking too many chips. I know some play for the win so say that if I win this hand I'm in a great position to take it all down but in this type of tournament there is too much to be gained from every jump in payout you make in eliminating others so more conservative against him would be the better coarse of action . If he is a good player which I'm assuming he should be to be this deep then there should be almost a silent agreement to keep it small and work to eliminate others .
I did not watch the hand but from your explanation I assume he was far from the nuts .So yes I tend to try and stay small ball with other chip leaders unless I know I have them . Aggressive to others but not leaders depending on how they are playing of coarse . Unless of coarse I have the nuts or at least close to it . If I am smaller stack I might be more aggressive but as co leader there is no need to risk your game life on over aggression . A raise is fine but no need for risking too many chips. I know some play for the win so say that if I win this hand I'm in a great position to take it all down but in this type of tournament there is too much to be gained from every jump in payout you make in eliminating others so more conservative against him would be the better coarse of action . If he is a good player which I'm assuming he should be to be this deep then there should be almost a silent agreement to keep it small and work to eliminate others .
Alucard
Santoryu
Silver Level
No it wasn't. It's not good to do battle against the other big stack anyway.
Besides there should be some alarm bells ringing after the raise on the turn.
I think he didn't think it through & it was just the heat of the moment.
One thing you should take to consideration is he's an absolute rec player & doesn't think about the villains ranges or other strategies when he was playing. Just going with his gut mostly.
And he enjoyed every bit of his run. I did as well. He did made some of the loosers angry but he lit up the final table and it was very enjoyable to watch.
He said in and interview just making the money was enough for him and everything else was just aa bonus. In the end after getting knocked out he said that he enjoyed every bit of it, and he'd never turn pro and he feels kind of odd making this deep because so many pros put much int their game for this kind of money & he doesn't want to take that away from them.
He came the last day as well & congratulated everybody.
Besides there should be some alarm bells ringing after the raise on the turn.
I think he didn't think it through & it was just the heat of the moment.
One thing you should take to consideration is he's an absolute rec player & doesn't think about the villains ranges or other strategies when he was playing. Just going with his gut mostly.
And he enjoyed every bit of his run. I did as well. He did made some of the loosers angry but he lit up the final table and it was very enjoyable to watch.
He said in and interview just making the money was enough for him and everything else was just aa bonus. In the end after getting knocked out he said that he enjoyed every bit of it, and he'd never turn pro and he feels kind of odd making this deep because so many pros put much int their game for this kind of money & he doesn't want to take that away from them.
He came the last day as well & congratulated everybody.
T
titiduru
Visionary
Silver Level
+1
How did the guy with 4 cards (AATT) lose to the guy with only 3 cards (AAA)?
Makes no sense.[/QUOTE
It makes sense: the site was obviously rigged)
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
So we should assume that a thinking player is going to purposefully committ ICM-suicide in by far the biggest payday of his entire life?
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
Exactly.
G
GonzalesFg
Rising Star
Bronze Level
INCORRECT PLAY
I gotta say John Hesp is a great guy to watch but he made an incorrect move.
BY going ALL IN he only has two choices the guy folds or the guy calls.
Know Your Opponent
I would never risk that amount on wsop main event . John must have put Blumstein on top pair or a bluff. but don't forget THREE OF A KiND
even if Blumstein WAS bluffing. I would still call to get more VALUE
just my 2 cents.
I gotta say John Hesp is a great guy to watch but he made an incorrect move.
BY going ALL IN he only has two choices the guy folds or the guy calls.
Know Your Opponent
I would never risk that amount on wsop main event . John must have put Blumstein on top pair or a bluff. but don't forget THREE OF A KiND
even if Blumstein WAS bluffing. I would still call to get more VALUE
just my 2 cents.
MoryMorte
Rock Star
Silver Level
He was surprised when he got raised. He went on a rush tilt and shoved. You shouldn't make a move when you are confused.
BriceNice
Rock Star
Silver Level
that same thinking player committed 7 million dollar ICM suicide by all in bluffing the next biggest stack at the final table of the wsop main. So yeah you should assume EVERYTHING as a possibility.
mbrenneman0
Legend
Silver Level
isnt that the baluga whale theorem? "if youre raised on the turn you should reevaluate the strength of your hand" if you get 3bet on the turn you should really really reevaluate the strength of your hand i prefer calling the turn 3bet and check calling most rivers maybe a jack comes OTR and some of blumsteins bluffs get there *if* he has any bluffs could make it a check fold.
T
trent32la
Legend
Bronze Level
Hesp's AT jam was terrible for a multitude of reasons.
For starters, when Blumstein checks back an A57 flop MP vs BB, he never has completely air. On a board texture that Blumstein has a range advantage on, he will be cbetting his air 100% of the time and likely giving up if he gets flatted and doesn't turn equity.
Obviously Hesp isn't thinking deeply about ranges in this spot, however Blumstein's check back range in this spot is going to be something like, weak 1 pair Ax, AA, and JJ-KK. For this reason, Hesp should be leading out on the turn with his hand so it doesn't get checked through.
When Hesp check-raises and Blumstein 3bets on the T turn, Blumstein's range is something like, TT, AA, J9, 98, 86. Blumstein isn't going to be 3betting the flop with one pair in a spot where Hesp is polarized! For this exact reason, Hesp should be calling or possibly even folding the turn when Blumstein 3bets, because Blumstein is polarized and only calls off hands that beat AT and folds all hands that lose to AT, in his range.
Earlier I also concluded that Blumstein cbets the flop in this spot with all of his air. So, J9, 98, and 86 are very likely not in his range after he takes this line, leaving only AA and AT. So as crazy as this sounds, AT is a fold when Blumstein 3bets the turn.
For starters, when Blumstein checks back an A57 flop MP vs BB, he never has completely air. On a board texture that Blumstein has a range advantage on, he will be cbetting his air 100% of the time and likely giving up if he gets flatted and doesn't turn equity.
Obviously Hesp isn't thinking deeply about ranges in this spot, however Blumstein's check back range in this spot is going to be something like, weak 1 pair Ax, AA, and JJ-KK. For this reason, Hesp should be leading out on the turn with his hand so it doesn't get checked through.
When Hesp check-raises and Blumstein 3bets on the T turn, Blumstein's range is something like, TT, AA, J9, 98, 86. Blumstein isn't going to be 3betting the flop with one pair in a spot where Hesp is polarized! For this exact reason, Hesp should be calling or possibly even folding the turn when Blumstein 3bets, because Blumstein is polarized and only calls off hands that beat AT and folds all hands that lose to AT, in his range.
Earlier I also concluded that Blumstein cbets the flop in this spot with all of his air. So, J9, 98, and 86 are very likely not in his range after he takes this line, leaving only AA and AT. So as crazy as this sounds, AT is a fold when Blumstein 3bets the turn.