ICM/Fold Equity?

[motyennif]

I apologize for my ignorance regarding these concepts but :

Some say that an understanding of ICM and Fold equity is imperative when playing in S n G's. However, in actual play (especially when multi-tabling), can anyone say they have time to look into these concepts, without attaching some kind of software to calculate the figures. Even if software is used, is input required and how much time is required to input the info? If software is not used, is it even worthwhile studying the concepts, and instead rely on notes that have been taken during play.
If the majority indicate that software is beneficial, what are the best programs available for the MAC computer(if any)? Maybe I will try them.

 

[IvanShovski]

If you are going to play SNGs regularly, then the study of ICM using tools such as SitNGo Wizard is definitely worthwhile. After a few months, you'll find that the application of ICM concepts to your decision process becomes intuitive.
I don't know of any ICM calculator software that is designed for the Mac. Apparently, SitNGo Wizard will run on a Mac with the aid of emulation programs such as Parallels or Bootcamp though.

 

[SYWTWAF]

I think it's against the rules on many sites to use ICM programs during game play, so most people would use it afterward, as a review & study tool anyway. And yes, understanding and applying ICM & FE correctly (at least on a basic level) is essential for succeeding at SnGs.

I'm a Mac user myself and nearly at my wits' end trying to find just one ICM program I can actually run without a virtual machine (with the exception of this sweet but limited gem), so I rely on extensive notes to make ICM decisions. It becomes intuitive after a while, and whatever it is I'm doing appears sufficient for playing low stakes SnGs profitably, but the difficulty of performing range calculations with any real precision makes me reluctant to move up. I don't understand why no one has tried to monetize on this... is there really that negligible a demand for solid, Mac-compatible ICM software? (Hint to skilled programmers who may be reading this: I would pay)

 

[OzExorcist]

The idea is that you study the concept, look at some common spots and over time build up a general "feel" for the concept that you can apply as you're playing without having to refer to calculators etc.

It's hard to be successful in SnGs without being aware of ICM at least on some level.

 

[Bwammo]

Honestly ICM isn't quite as valuable for SNGs as it is for MTTs, unless we're talking about MTT SNGs hehe. But if we're dealing with 9 mans, ICM can mostly be broken down with some common sense: do we need chips to survive right now and what advantage will these new chips give us, if any?

On that note, I personally despise SNGWiz but if you're feeling completely clueless on the matter of ICM it would probably be a helpful tool.

 

[motyennif]

I don't know of any ICM calculator software that is designed for the Mac. Apparently, SitNGo Wizard will run on a Mac with the aid of emulation programs such as Parallels or Bootcamp though.

I refuse to run any software via emulation - my reason - if I wanted to run Windows (which I hate) I wouldn't buy a MAC (which I love). Also don't especially like running web-based versions of poker sites.
So I am only interested in native versions of any software.

 

[RamdeeBen]

Honestly ICM isn't quite as valuable for SNGs as it is for MTTs, unless we're talking about MTT SNGs hehe. But if we're dealing with 9 mans, ICM can mostly be broken down with some common sense: do we need chips to survive right now and what advantage will these new chips give us, if any?

On that note, I personally despise SNGWiz but if you're feeling completely clueless on the matter of ICM it would probably be a helpful tool.

I really was under the impression from most people that ICM is more crucial in STT as opposed to MTT SnG's..

So you think MTT SnG's and standard MTT's are more based on ICM than STT's?

 

[Bwammo]

I really was under the impression from most people that ICM is more crucial in STT as opposed to MTT SnG's..

So you think MTT SnG's and standard MTT's are more based on ICM than STT's?

When we're near/in the money in mtts, yeah, it's very important to remember what our stack is "worth" when making decisions.

 

[the lab man]

On that note, I personally despise SNGWiz .

Enjoy your readings Bwammo, Can I ask why?

 

[Bwammo]

Hehe because it fails to take many things into consideration and gives my students concrete and incorrect training for making certain plays hehe. But I love that the program exists, makes beating the games easier because opponents are more predictable and lets me/my students abuse the game more regularly lol

 

[Bwammo]

Training = reasoning, would edit post but I'm on my phone and I can't lol

 

[RamdeeBen]

Just a quick one then, because I lack so much in ICM.

The basic form of ICM if short stacked, don't call all-ins when shoved on by a big stack near the bubble even IF the big stacks range most likely is very wide?

Also - if you encounter this (quite often) then at what point do you call? I hear people say even if you're short stacked and hold a good hand and big stack shoves on bubble you should consider folding, makes no sense to me as you're never going to find a "right" spot even when you shove, big stacks will call wide. Why not call with suited connectors when shortie or 2 picture cards etc if you have them crushed? I don't really understand ICM as it makes no sense sometimes, I've even heard people say in hyper turbos you should fold aces at times due to ICM..

Thanks! :>

 

[Bwammo]

Are we talking short stacked in a mtt or sng? In a sng it's usually best to avoid making that call directly on the bubble unless you're less than like 5bb or you're less than half of the player directly ahead of you.

In a mtt you're allowed to take that risk a bit more openly because we're just trying to get first and making the money is a bit less important