Did I do anything wrong?

[kanselau]

Reads on villain: not a great player, raising about 40% pre flop and 60 VPIP. Seemed to like betting out and wasn't letting average hands go
if hes got an average hand on the flop , hes not letting it go right , if hes a fish (60% VPIP ) his going to chase any flush draw or straight draw right. So why the hell you not betting into him, I understand that you said if you check hell bet , so you got exactly what you wanted you checked the flop , he donk bet got a cheap card on draw heavy board ?. and then when draws are complete on turn you invest your whole stack , man if you won this hand gl but terribly played.
3 bet bigger at least 3x bb 9 hes a fish remember , if he calls 2xbb hes calling 3xbb , charge him for his draws, get you money in as soon as possible when you commited to your hand and re-eveluate on turn

 

[MediaBLITZ]

Depends on how much I think he'll call, probably 400-500.

Pretty good bet.

Let me clarify that I did not say we want the villian to get out. We do want to make him pay more than he should to chase and we will force him into a difficult decision. Our bet should hopefully cause him to make a mistake. His only other option will be to get out of the hand. Personally I would be delighted to have a chaser call my monster trips. It's +EV.

My comment was more meant to be tantamount to have him "shxt or get off the pot" than to advocate making a bet to force the guy out of the hand. If that were the case I would have said shove on the flop - which I am NOT saying.

 

[baudib1]

Protection and/or giving bad price to draws is either overrated, or close to nonexistent.


First off, it's a paired board so there's hardly a good price to draw. But ignoring that even if they have good equity with something like JTcc it's almost impossible to give them a bad price -- you're close to giving yourself a bad price on your hand.


Granted there are considerations in tournaments where people will recognize their stack is being threatened depending on the line you take but just as often someone will call off a huge bet and leave themselves with like a 1/2 PSB on the turn. You really don't want to be involved in either side of that equation.

Mostly we should just be concerned with sizing our bets to get max value from as wide a range of hands as possible.

If it's a dry board and you have the nuts you might have to seriously underbet the flop. If you have a good but vulnerable hand multiway on an extremely wet board, consider underbetting as well.

 

[Pascal-lf]

surely if you underbet a vulnerable hand multiway all you stand to do is induce and get yourself blown off your hand?

 

[baudib1]

you have two red queens, blinds are 10/20 you raise to 80 and get 3 callers, everyone has 1,420 left pot is 320

Board is 987 all black cards

do you think it's more profitable in the long run to bet 120 or 300?

 

[Pascal-lf]

im not betting either of those so...

 

[baudib1]

When it's going to be a mistake to get it in on the flop yet giving a free card would be a disaster, underbetting looks to be the best option.

 

[Pascal-lf]

i mean plenty of people will peel one on that sort of flop and then fold turn so 300 seems a good option but i'd probably go more for 250, plenty of worse hands to get value from and etc

 

[baudib1]

You bet 250 and get 2 callers. your next bet is what?

This is assuming you're not getting jammed on, which will happen pretty often.

 

[Pascal-lf]

we arent good vs a jamming range 4 way but people love to peel one off

 

[baudib1]

yeah the problem is we're giving up on 2/3s of all turn cards (only good cards are red cards 2-5) and we've got a pot-size bet left in your scenario. you'll also force many players to jam over draws because of the size of the pot.

We're almost never going to have more than 28-30% in a 4-way pot and we could be dead. Someone with a combo draw is going to be a large favorite. Try underbetting in this spot and you'll see it's a lot more manageable, you can even try for another street of value if the board runs clean.

 

[Pascal-lf]

the last thing we want to do when people play passively and don't raise enough is to induce. a c-bet on that board looks super strong anyway, and there are more safe cards than you think - reds and spades 2-5, 7s and 8s are probably safe because we can make people fold them on the flop by not betting ridic small, obviously a Q, and a K is an OK card because people tend to fold K9 pre so there won't be many Ks in their ranges

 

[baudib1]

Don't bet enough to fold out 8x, 7x; those are the only hands we want to call! The last thing you want to do in that spot is whittle their ranges down to stuff you're in trouble against. Not to mention the fact we save 1/10th our stack when we have to fold. We're not really hoping to look super strong here, either -- it's not like AJ/KT with a flush draw is folding to either bet so forget about protection.

In general, when you get to the turn with a PSB and want to check-fold more than half the deck, you probably did something wrong.

When you have QQ and one of your better turn cards is a K, you don't want to play a big pot here.

underbet > check-fold > overbet shove > c/c small bet > bet 2/3 PSB or more

 

[sky4ever]

Nice ^^, I like your tought proccess

 

[spunka]

The 9 club is a bad card, so either you fold there or shove like you did, that really depends on the read you have on the guy/girl.
You can't win all the time in poker, here you lose when the draw comes in.
And as said in this post you can raise higher, you can even shove post flop, but if the opponent decide to call you will lose any way.