How to play large stack around bubble

okeedokalee

okeedokalee

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You have a very large stack approaching bubble, what is the strategy?Here are two alternative plans:


Play to keep stack at a positive level
Pros:
- Preserves chips
- Will keep chips for the Final Table
- Seems a correct move when it works :rock:

Cons:
- Others will gain ground on you. Blinds will reduce your holding.
- Shows lack of initiative with respect to winning the tourney
- Makes you look foolish when it doesn't work :vollkomme


Play as Table Captain and be the "bully"
Pros:
- Can accumulate more chips
- Can knock out opponents to help gain a high finish
- Probably optimal with respect to winning the tourney
- Seen to be brilliant when it works :rock:

Cons:
- Risks losing your massive stack
- Debatable whether it is optimal with respect to gaining a top placing
- You look silly when it back fires:vollkomme


Any suggestions which one is best and under what circumstances?
 
gon4iypes

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Think of the old saying Nothing ventured nothing gained. You just cannot know at all whether the board will connect with your cards, even if you have good cards. A frw minutes ago I was knocked out of a tourney, the last 2 hands had good cards that did not connect, and beaten by worse hands preflop that DID connect. Just don't be afraid to stand up in the wind
 
FF2586

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Hey!

Good topic!


I think this is a great opportunity for the big stack to get bigger around the bubble.
One doesn't have to be a but defenetely has to loosen up and opten more often! I even open raise every hand and c bet if I get called, if cbet gets called, i abort. And sometimes I hit so hard with marginal hands, that it becomes worth to play against tight players.


This applies to the weak fields. But if you are playing a strong field and a strong table, you sure have to loosen up, but you have to be careful not calling 3bets or 4betting light and bleed against very good players!


GL
 
Marcwantstowin

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Hi Sir Charles.

I believe it all depends on how you perceive your opponents, and how they perceive you too. If you have been aggy for most of the tournament and achieved your big stack, well I think you should continue to play the same way.

I also think, at some point, you need to decide, one of two things, do you want to win the tourney or are you happy to play and see how it goes, progressively getting into good spots, but making as much cash from the payout as you can?

I definitely go with option two on your list, but that's cos I am generally an aggressive player, but in recent times I have been looking to control my aggression. Mind you, if I am the big stack at a table, then I always, (something else I have taken on board), is to make sure you play, in optimum position, as your opponents will think you of being a bully, so not really consider your raises/ re-raises to be genuine. For this reason, even when on a bluff or genuine hand, position is v.important.

Good luck, but at the end of the day, it will be your decision, as best suits your mindset and your style of play.

One day, when we are in Vegas in one November and there are 9 of us left, you'll have to let me know what you decided. :top:
 
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Just like any other time , you need to know your opponent . You should be able to pick out the passive players . Be aggressive when they are the blinds . Don't call raises with marginal hands . You 're looking to steal blinds not getting into showdowns . GL
 
okeedokalee

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My question arises from accumulating 35,000 chips with two to go till the FT.If I had sat on the stack, I was comfortably on the FT.
Instead I continued pursuing passive players and ran into quad queens v my full boat, and a set v 2 pair and was out within 5 hands of reaching my big stack.
The next tournament a day later with similar stack I waited patiently for the FT and finished second.
My natural instinct is aggression, but maybe it is better to wait.
There is the "axiom chips lost are worth more that chips won."
I now think I grasp the meaning better
 
MrGrace

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I think after the bubble with a large stack you should try to control the table keeping others honest and forced to push to play if you steal the blinds more then you lose its a win win to increase your stack however if everyone is still playing aggressive or defensive then stay out of the hands don't throw chips away if its not working. Tables change seems its important to not push if everyone is playing. Just my advise.
 
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With the big stack, it is a good idea to be aggressive around the bubble. At this point, you have assessed the players at the table. The blinds and antes make the preflop raise more profitable when players are trying to avoid bubbling.
 
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what about option 3, sit out and play another table? lol


defeats the purpose of maintaining positive chips but depending on how big your stack is.. sometimes its best to just look away. i like being a bully but you get into a lot of flip situations against low stacks that is a bit unnecessary, dont you think?
 
okeedokalee

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Agree Nick.Flipping low stacks can be damaging.besides there are no implied odds if you are drawing.Middle stacks are better targets to bully, they still have a chance to make the final table and are more likely to fold mid range hands, whereas the low stacks have nothing to lose and can't be pushed off a hand that has even remote chances
 
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Play your cards based on your position when playing a large stack around the bubble. If you are early position the only hands I'd be playing are AJs+, AQo+, and TT+(Hands you have good equity going all in with). Middle position you can throw in 99, ATo+, A9s+, KJs+, KQo+. Late position I'd widen my range a bit more to 77+, A9s+, A8o+, K9s+, KTo+, but don't raise TOO much with the hands towards the bottom of these ranges as players will likely shove as they are in push/fold territory, you have to be okay parting with these chips.
 
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freestocks

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This is the exact situation I need to play better.
 
Spaceman

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I love Negreanu advice on this. You should just play more small ball, see more flops. You should aim to play aggressively preflop, try to get dead money, but after the flop you should play more passively, if you see resistance don't try any dumb moves.


Jab, jab and then guard on:p:p
 
okeedokalee

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Some good advice guys, I think Negreanu's plan keeps the pot manageable and you can exit with chips in hand when the heat goes on.
 
dimon4ik89

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I think you need to play aggressively and moderately carefully.

I think you need to play aggressively and moderately carefully. Strongly aggressive style of play always leads to a bad result. Much depends on the opponent against whom you are playing. In general, you need to closely monitor the game and know against whom you can play aggressively and against whom you can not. Personally, I play neatly on the bubble, and in rare cases I allow myself to bluff.
 
leogetz79

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the book says that if you have a large stack you should prey on the smaller stacks.
 
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Hi all,

I often play free rolls. I always try to be the bully, as it seems the right thing to do. But I have the weird feeling that it does not work out as well when you play a free roll. But of course you should try to steal blinds and defend your own blinds a bit more. Especially because if they do not hit on the flop, the will mostly fold after one bet.
 
radartodd69

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When I have the big stack around the bubble, I like to be somewhat aggressive with decent holdings. I just remember to try not be too proud to fold when someone answers my raise with a new raise. I watch others play the big stack and it seems like they go crazy with any 2 and it seems to work for them. That doesn't tend to work for me but everyone's different. You just have to choose what works for you based on your experience.
 
natasha555

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If you have a big stack the best strategy is to try and steal as many blinds as possible in this stage of the tournament.
 
mariale_1990

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many times it depends on how you evaluate your opponent, if you make a good reading of them you will know how to play them and strategies to use
 
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NickNation

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heres a tourney i just played, closer to the final table bubble than the actual bubble (we are already ITM)


im sitting in top ten so i figured i should try to scoop some of these 5 dollar bounties on the low stacks and be aggressive, so i flipped more than i should have.. and even when dominating someone, shit still happens.. if i didnt play at all i would have made the final table by sitting out... instead i played aggressive and attacked the bounties... and, well.. a few bad flips and a row and you're on your way out.... why do that near a bubble? (or even here, before a final table bubble when the money actually starts getting good.. nothing like playing for hours only to make ten or twenty bucks... or worse lol. gotta love micro stakes)




partypoker - 25000/50000 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 10.76 BB (VPIP: 20.37, PFR: 4.94, 3Bet Preflop: 2.70, Hands: 165)
CO: 48.16 BB (VPIP: 30.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
BTN: 16.9 BB (VPIP: 26.67, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 30)
Hero (SB): 79.73 BB
BB: 41.44 BB (VPIP: 30.00, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
UTG: 29.28 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 25.00, Hands: 10)

6 players post ante of 0.13 BB, Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.28 BB) Hero has T:heart: 9:heart:

fold, MP calls 1 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 4 BB, fold, MP calls 3 BB

Flop: (9.78 BB, 2 players) T:club: 2:club: A:spade:
Hero bets 9.78 BB, MP calls 6.63 BB and is all-in

Turn: (23.04 BB, 2 players) 5:club:

River: (23.04 BB, 2 players) 6:club:

Hero shows T:heart: 9:heart: (One Pair, Tens)
(Pre 31%, Flop 19%, Turn 14%)
MP shows T:spade: Q:spade: (One Pair, Tens)
(Pre 69%, Flop 81%, Turn 86%)
Hero wins 3.15 BB
MP wins 23.04 BB



-------------------------------------------





partypoker - 30000/60000 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 13.44 BB (VPIP: 20.79, PFR: 5.06, 3Bet Preflop: 2.47, Hands: 181)
SB: 32.57 BB (VPIP: 24.00, PFR: 12.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 26)
BB: 13.97 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 13.33, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 46)
Hero (UTG): 59.37 BB
MP: 32.81 BB (VPIP: 16.00, PFR: 8.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 26)
CO: 36.4 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 20.83, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 26)

6 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.25 BB) Hero has A:heart: T:heart:

Hero raises to 2.1 BB, MP calls 2.1 BB, CO calls 2.1 BB, BTN raises to 13.32 BB and is all-in, fold, fold, Hero raises to 59.24 BB and is all-in, fold, fold

Flop: (33.09 BB, 2 players) 5:spade: 8:spade: 9:heart:

Turn: (33.09 BB, 2 players) Q:club:

River: (33.09 BB, 2 players) 8:heart:

Hero shows A:heart: T:heart: (One Pair, Eights)
(Pre 31%, Flop 20%, Turn 9%)
BTN shows A:diamond: Q:spade: (Two Pair, Queens and Eights)
(Pre 69%, Flop 80%, Turn 91%)
Hero wins 45.92 BB
BTN wins 33.09 BB

















-------------------------------------




partypoker - 35000/70000 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 28.43 BB (VPIP: 20.53, PFR: 5.79, 3Bet Preflop: 3.53, Hands: 194)
BTN: 31.81 BB (VPIP: 23.68, PFR: 10.53, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 39)
SB: 6.94 BB (VPIP: 15.52, PFR: 10.53, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 59)
Hero (BB): 37.97 BB
UTG: 22.11 BB (VPIP: 21.05, PFR: 10.53, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 39)
MP: 34.36 BB (VPIP: 21.05, PFR: 13.51, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 39)

6 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.27 BB) Hero has K:diamond: Q:diamond:

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to 6.82 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 5.82 BB

Flop: (14.4 BB, 2 players) 3:heart: 8:club: 9:heart:

Turn: (14.4 BB, 2 players) 6:diamond:

River: (14.4 BB, 2 players) J:club:

SB shows K:heart: J:spade: (One Pair, Jacks)
(Pre 25%, Flop 19%, Turn 7%)
Hero shows K:diamond: Q:diamond: (High Card, King)
(Pre 75%, Flop 81%, Turn 93%)
SB wins 14.4 BB



---------------------------------------


and then finally




partypoker - 45000/90000 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 33.35 BB (VPIP: 60.00, PFR: 40.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
SB: 39.04 BB (VPIP: 40.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 33.33, Hands: 5)
BB: 43.06 BB (VPIP: 19.23, PFR: 11.54, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 26)
Hero (UTG): 24.86 BB
CO: 49.53 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)

5 players post ante of 0.12 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.11 BB) Hero has K:club: T:spade:

Hero raises to 2.1 BB, fold, BTN calls 2.1 BB, SB calls 1.6 BB, fold

Flop: (7.91 BB, 3 players) 4:diamond: 5:diamond: T:heart:
SB checks, Hero bets 7.91 BB, fold, SB calls 7.91 BB

Turn: (23.73 BB, 2 players) 7:club:
SB checks, Hero bets 14.73 BB and is all-in, SB calls 14.73 BB

River: (53.18 BB, 2 players) 6:heart:

SB shows 7:diamond: T:diamond: (Two Pair, Tens and Sevens)
(Pre 32%, Flop 49%, Turn 95%)
Hero shows K:club: T:spade: (One Pair, Tens)
(Pre 68%, Flop 51%, Turn 5%)
SB wins 53.18 BB







and here i am telling you about it rather than sitting at the final table... so the question is... should have i just walked away with 100bb with 50ish people left and waited until the FT? or donk out somewhere in the mid 30s for ten bucks instead of 150? all for a few f**king bounties lol




im starting to think my strategy over, and next time i'm just gonna go warm up some popcorn and get ready for the final table.... thoughts?
 
monstr999999

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Both options work)))
I adhere to - 2 options ....)
I like aggressive fighting more ..)))
:bebored:
 
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Richardszabo

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Great summary ! At the beginning of my poker career, for a long time i used the passive strategy and achieved a lot of good results.
Nowadays I know more about poker and the aggressive strategy is much better if you want to win a tournament.
 
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