This is a discussion on How many big blinds before committing your tournament with a pair? within the online poker forums, in the Tournament Poker section; How many big blinds is reasonable before shipping your tournament life on a pair preflop?
And lets say the pair is 88 or 99, EP +1,
How many big blinds is reasonable before shipping your tournament life on a pair preflop?
And lets say the pair is 88 or 99, EP +1, MP
I am thinking under 15 bb?
18-25bb I like to wait for a bigger hand, another orbit or two
Pretty much on the money there with under 15bb though I drop to 10bb depending on table dynamics (i.e. if the play is fast and aggressive or not) - and of course no mention here of proximity to the bubble.
I have limped over the bubble line with less than a big blind many times.
If the table is 6 handed or full ring makes a difference but I will discount that for now and just assume you are talking about full ring. With it being full ring I think much of it depends on how you view yourself skill wise vs the other players in the field. If I am in a tournament where I feel like I have a skill advantage on most players I would agree that I am not shipping in 18-20 BB on 88 or a pair similar. In this spot I do not want to flip for my life just yet as I feel I have an edge and better chance to still build my stack.
If I am in a tournament where it feels like everyone has a skill edge over me and I am getting my ass handed to me then I will easily shove 18-20 big blinds with 88 or a similar pair because in that situation I feel that is the best chance I have to get a somewhat normal stack. When I am being outplayed consistently then I will take the risk of getting into a most likely flip and see if I can win it. If I lose in that situation its not nearly as bad since I feel like I was getting beat and would need to get super lucky anyway to just survive.
So in essence, it all boils down to how good do you think you are vs everyone else. The better you feel you are against them the less risk you have to take and the better they are against you the more risk you should be willing to take.
Too many factors to consider to be able to answer this question definitively. Basically if I get below 10 BB and am first to act, Iíll often jam most pairs except small pairs from early position. Again it depends on numerous other factors (too many to get into) but thatís my basic rule of thumb.
The problem is when your down to 15 blinds and jam with 88 or 99 is will opponents
lay down hands like KQ suited AJ offsuit not wanting to take a flip worrying that you
may be jamming with a hand that dominates them. I don't think you can get 10s to lay
down not wanting to take flip with you?
Much depends on the proximity to the bubble. Early, if I somehow got down to 10BB, I'll jam with middle pairs. Approaching the bubble, I'll raise with middle pair and only jam if under about 6BB. Once ITM, I might jam middle pair with 20BB.
Of course this is not law. Often the table and sometimes the tournament is a bigger factor than stack size. The players left to act play the biggest role, as does my goal in jamming. Is my goal getting called for a coin flip or to steal the blinds? Do I think an under pair might call me?
If you have 88-99, open folding is rarely an option, unless there is an extreme ICM situation going on. In any normal spot the choise will be between mini-raising and open jamming. The looser the players behind, the sooner I will start to open jam. It also matter, how large stacks are sitting behind. If I have 18BB, and the players behind me have 7BB, 22BB, 13BB, 11BB, 4BB and 9BB, then I typically open jam, because against anyone but one player its for 13BB or less. If they all have me covered, I go for a mini-raise with intention to mostly fold to 3-bets.
There is a lot of variables that come into play here. 22-77 UTG is not a great spot to jam with anything over 8bbs. 6-7 BB's and I am showing those though. Late position and it is folded to me, my shoving range is larger and will include all of my pairs with 12-15 BB's.
re: Poker & How many big blinds before committing your tournament with a pair?
I agree that there is definitely room for a min raising range above 15BB. Under 10 I'm shoving from anywhere without ICM considerations. That said, I've been at a final table with a medium stack and 5 out of 9 micro stacks and a huge chip leader that was going bonanza. I folded 88 UTG because he 3 bet everytime and it wasn't worth a flip. I ended up getting second and nearly 10xing the money I won.
Please any ideas or advice is welcome and appreciated.
I play on Betonline because I don't have much choice, but it's pretty great. Why do want to switch? I believe you can play on America's Card Room in Oregon as well as Ignition. In Washington state my options are a bit limited, but I used to play on Ignition and it's pretty good except that they have annonomous tables. I like to be able to keep notes on players I frequently see in the same tournaments.
With 10 blinds or less , decision to shove pocket pair is easier , if it's a weak pair I don't like it , I prefer bigger stack , ip and threaten some short stacks , but if it's a bigger pair or very high pair , deciaion is very easy , even with 10-15 blinds , or 20 blinds in position , but with more I won't . So many times I saw fake flips , lol .
Btw , if sb limps , waiting for you to shove , better have a very big pair , or bet tricky , or else prepair to lose , lol For ex limp K10o , shove , he calls , bye bye tournament , lol . Also you shove , he's on the sb , he calls for a flip , bb folds , he wins , sh*** , so many times i have seen it , lol
More or less 15bb. There are circumstances where I'll be happy to do a few more on a mid-pair if I think it's likely to get through and assuming a full table of ante's. 2.5BB against ~18 is worth taking but depends on players behind.
re: Poker & How many big blinds before committing your tournament with a pair?
Your stack size is one of the criteria for playing your hand in any given hand.
In addition, you need to determine the size of the table, your position at the table, the activity of the players at the table, the level of the players at the table and their position in relation to you, it is important to know the game The player level sits on BB.
If we take a strictly theoretical basis (without the influence of other criteria), then in your case with 15bb, raise from 99+ from position with EP, from 22+ to 88 fold, but this is all taking into account that there is no ante yet, if there is ante 99+ allin, 88 and below fold. However, from the position of MP + 88 is included in the list of hands for pushing with ante.
10BB is the right number. With 15BB I would say it depends. You can still make a 3BB raise and have 12BB to play with them on flop and maybe turn. This works good with position, because most of the time overcards will come so you will have to relay your decision on flop structure and opponents bet. Withouth position you would probbably have to put all your remaining money to the pot first, so it might be better to go all-in preflop.
20-15bb reason to shove with 88-99 pair.
Hands 1010+ and hands AJ +; KQ can answer depending on the type of tournament.
This is about 8% of the possible hands.
Plus such a decision, not everyone dares to risk their participation in the tournament without a strong pair.
Worse if you raise with this hand.
Of course, you can just fold if you are near the prize area and do not want to risk it.
I would say with pairs lower than Jack's, more than 15bb because your stack size is big enough to get players to fold their KQ ect. But pocket Jack's to Aces a good time to go all in is 10bb. Small enough stack to get callers to enable you the chance to build a big stack.
Personally I like to go by how many rounds can I still sit through before I am completely eaten up rather than thinking in terms of just Big Blinds. Same reasoning but the Symbol for that is M. M is just the big blind plus the small blind plus all the antes in the middle for each hand. When I get down to about 5M I feel like about any pair will do even in early position but I like to be in a better position when I make my move if possible. That way it allows me to see if anyone is getting involved before me, and I have a better chance of isolating.
Of course it depends on the things like bubble and payout structure but generally you're right on the money with the 15bb, that's my opinion and my way of playing them. Depending on maybe some wilder players at the table you can do something else with it but you wouldn't be wrong with shipping it pre-flop.
Here is how many big bonds that are left before I have to commit
I think in tournament action how many big bonds am I committed to before I shove. a lot of the answers are depend on what stage of tournament I am in whether I'm on the bubble or not and if opponents I'm playing against play a key factor in this.I think my role is between 15 and 20 blinds I do not want to be down lower cuz them people will call with any and everything and normally they will hit with nearly everything that they play so I think around 15 to 20 bucks you have to have enough strength that they can't just really nearly call or just about anything so I think that's how I would approach it I know some people are different but that's how I would approach it.