How many big blinds before committing your tournament with a pair?

ssangyongpoker

ssangyongpoker

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How many big blinds is reasonable before shipping your tournament life on a pair preflop?

And lets say the pair is 88 or 99, EP +1, MP

I am thinking under 15 bb?

18-25bb I like to wait for a bigger hand, another orbit or two
 
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1nsomn1a

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I think it depends more on the stage of the tournament, the number of players, the tight or aggressive opponents and what goal you want to achieve to reset everything or to call your all in
 
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DS3

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How many big blinds is reasonable before shipping your tournament life on a pair preflop?

And lets say the pair is 88 or 99, EP +1, MP

I am thinking under 15 bb?

18-25bb I like to wait for a bigger hand, another orbit or two

Pretty much on the money there with under 15bb though I drop to 10bb depending on table dynamics (i.e. if the play is fast and aggressive or not) - and of course no mention here of proximity to the bubble.

I have limped over the bubble line with less than a big blind many times.
 
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300HPGOD

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If the table is 6 handed or full ring makes a difference but I will discount that for now and just assume you are talking about full ring. With it being full ring I think much of it depends on how you view yourself skill wise vs the other players in the field. If I am in a tournament where I feel like I have a skill advantage on most players I would agree that I am not shipping in 18-20 BB on 88 or a pair similar. In this spot I do not want to flip for my life just yet as I feel I have an edge and better chance to still build my stack.

If I am in a tournament where it feels like everyone has a skill edge over me and I am getting my ass handed to me then I will easily shove 18-20 big blinds with 88 or a similar pair because in that situation I feel that is the best chance I have to get a somewhat normal stack. When I am being outplayed consistently then I will take the risk of getting into a most likely flip and see if I can win it. If I lose in that situation its not nearly as bad since I feel like I was getting beat and would need to get super lucky anyway to just survive.

So in essence, it all boils down to how good do you think you are vs everyone else. The better you feel you are against them the less risk you have to take and the better they are against you the more risk you should be willing to take.
 
Psyanide14

Psyanide14

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Too many factors to consider to be able to answer this question definitively. Basically if I get below 10 BB and am first to act, I’ll often jam most pairs except small pairs from early position. Again it depends on numerous other factors (too many to get into) but that’s my basic rule of thumb.
 
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moshie

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The problem is when your down to 15 blinds and jam with 88 or 99 is will opponents
lay down hands like KQ suited AJ offsuit not wanting to take a flip worrying that you
may be jamming with a hand that dominates them. I don't think you can get 10s to lay
down not wanting to take flip with you?
 
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popstani

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Generally under 10BB, but sometimes even higher 20 or more. Like every thing in poker, it depends.
 
Luan

Luan

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i prefer to play with less than 10 bbs in my hands for qie 15bbs you can still hold a good hand!
 
poliaris747

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I want to note the following. if you know that a player is very weak and bluffs often and starts doing it again, will you not play against him? it doesn't matter how much BB you have
 
thehangdude

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Much depends on the proximity to the bubble. Early, if I somehow got down to 10BB, I'll jam with middle pairs. Approaching the bubble, I'll raise with middle pair and only jam if under about 6BB. Once ITM, I might jam middle pair with 20BB.

Of course this is not law. Often the table and sometimes the tournament is a bigger factor than stack size. The players left to act play the biggest role, as does my goal in jamming. Is my goal getting called for a coin flip or to steal the blinds? Do I think an under pair might call me?
 
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fundiver199

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If you have 88-99, open folding is rarely an option, unless there is an extreme ICM situation going on. In any normal spot the choise will be between mini-raising and open jamming. The looser the players behind, the sooner I will start to open jam. It also matter, how large stacks are sitting behind. If I have 18BB, and the players behind me have 7BB, 22BB, 13BB, 11BB, 4BB and 9BB, then I typically open jam, because against anyone but one player its for 13BB or less. If they all have me covered, I go for a mini-raise with intention to mostly fold to 3-bets.
 
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DancingNancie

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There is a lot of variables that come into play here. 22-77 UTG is not a great spot to jam with anything over 8bbs. 6-7 BB's and I am showing those though. Late position and it is folded to me, my shoving range is larger and will include all of my pairs with 12-15 BB's.
 
nativehero2015

nativehero2015

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I shove 8 bb to 14 bb ..... any pair, coz im crazy
 
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Kush

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I agree that there is definitely room for a min raising range above 15BB. Under 10 I'm shoving from anywhere without ICM considerations. That said, I've been at a final table with a medium stack and 5 out of 9 micro stacks and a huge chip leader that was going bonanza. I folded 88 UTG because he 3 bet everytime and it wasn't worth a flip. I ended up getting second and nearly 10xing the money I won.
 
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Guccipatna77

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Where to play?

Where is the best place to play living in oregon? I play on betonline really want to try something different.
 
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Guccipatna77

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Please any ideas or advice is welcome and appreciated.
 
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Kush

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Please any ideas or advice is welcome and appreciated.

I play on Betonline because I don't have much choice, but it's pretty great. Why do want to switch? I believe you can play on America's Card Room in Oregon as well as ignition. In Washington state my options are a bit limited, but I used to play on Ignition and it's pretty good except that they have annonomous tables. I like to be able to keep notes on players I frequently see in the same tournaments.
 
antonis32123

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With 10 blinds or less , decision to shove pocket pair is easier , if it's a weak pair I don't like it , I prefer bigger stack , ip and threaten some short stacks , but if it's a bigger pair or very high pair , deciaion is very easy , even with 10-15 blinds , or 20 blinds in position , but with more I won't . So many times I saw fake flips , lol .

Btw , if sb limps , waiting for you to shove , better have a very big pair , or bet tricky , or else prepair to lose , lol :) For ex limp K10o , shove , he calls , bye bye tournament , lol . Also you shove , he's on the sb , he calls for a flip , bb folds , he wins , sh*** , so many times i have seen it , lol :)
 
lcid86

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Depends on position and payout schedule. Under 5 it's almost automatic. Everything else, varies.
 
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Oxinthewater

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More or less 15bb. There are circumstances where I'll be happy to do a few more on a mid-pair if I think it's likely to get through and assuming a full table of ante's. 2.5BB against ~18 is worth taking but depends on players behind.
 
Zvezda kz

Zvezda kz

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Your stack size is one of the criteria for playing your hand in any given hand.
In addition, you need to determine the size of the table, your position at the table, the activity of the players at the table, the level of the players at the table and their position in relation to you, it is important to know the game The player level sits on BB.
If we take a strictly theoretical basis (without the influence of other criteria), then in your case with 15bb, raise from 99+ from position with EP, from 22+ to 88 fold, but this is all taking into account that there is no ante yet, if there is ante 99+ allin, 88 and below fold. However, from the position of MP + 88 is included in the list of hands for pushing with ante.
 
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Delfino

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10BB is the right number. With 15BB I would say it depends. You can still make a 3BB raise and have 12BB to play with them on flop and maybe turn. This works good with position, because most of the time overcards will come so you will have to relay your decision on flop structure and opponents bet. Withouth position you would probbably have to put all your remaining money to the pot first, so it might be better to go all-in preflop.
 
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ronn6583

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20-15bb reason to shove with 88-99 pair.
Hands 1010+ and hands AJ +; KQ can answer depending on the type of tournament.
This is about 8% of the possible hands.
Plus such a decision, not everyone dares to risk their participation in the tournament without a strong pair.
Worse if you raise with this hand.
Of course, you can just fold if you are near the prize area and do not want to risk it.
 
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ph_il

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99?

it could be anywhere between an 8 bbs shove and 40+ bb shove pre, depending on the situation.
 
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