How to defend a big pair?

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PotPlucker

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One of the largest leaks in my game is when I open with a decent pair (1010 or better) and the flop comes 3 under cards with 2 being suited. Its common today for folks to call opening raises with lower suited connectors and gappers. These flops allow for all kinds of opportunity with straights and flush draws plus they also can hit 2 pair or the dreaded set. So I make the cbet 2/3 pot trying to get value for the over pair and defend vs the drawing hands. Often at this time the villain will re-raise the looking to get both streets of the draw for cheap. Once I know their image and feel fairly good the pair is ahead I 4 bet to make them pay. Maybe this is the error but anyway often the chips get all in and they hit the draw. I go busto. So any suggestions how to defend the overpair to a flop of undercards containing 2 of a suit?
 
Kurtimus

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Well, there's this guy I watch who always says you're betting for value against draws, not for defense. If you lose on a draw as you describe that's just bad luck, and there isn't anything to learn from that, you have good odds with your over pair and just need to make good decisions. Flush draws are pretty hard to get, you can't worry about them too much or it'll hurt you elsewhere.
 
thatguy6793

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Seems like you're playing them right and just getting into some bad luck on the draws. The only other thing I can suggest is playing more aggressive preflop to try and force the suited connecters of suited aces out before they have a chance to hit the flush and try cbetting the pot against short stakes you think are on the draw. Other than those I don't see a better way to prevent flushes from happening but just keep at it with over pairs and over time the wins will outweight the loses here.
 
walluyo

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Always raise preflop, then look how many caller, if only 1 or 2 opponents with a good board, means no Broadway card, hit with cbet.
 
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EPTX12

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Yeah play them for value. Sometimes that end result isn't what you're looking for but for the most part be agressive. It's better to take down what you have in the middle then to get suckered out trying to set a trap.

Gl out there!
 
vov4ik

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I protect big pairs only by raising or all-in, because if you roll out at a small bet you can lose to players with small cards
 
Amanda A

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I think you are playing right. As long as you make them pay more than they are supposed to for their draw you are playing good poker. And for a flush they have 9 outs which is about 18% if they see one card and around 32% for 2 cards. If you are betting 2/3 of the pot they need around 28% to call to see the next card only. You are forcing them to make mistakes, so that's great, you can't worry about the result of an individual hand.
 
bahajan

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how to protect a large pair, depends on many factors in what position, if early, you have to remember that after you can log in with medium pairs, if their stack is large, if in late position, you have to watch who sits on the blend if on the BB with a small stack, he probably will not reset your hand, so it all depends on the tournament and the depth of stacks for example on the bubble early position with AK, you can reset and do not hesitate will fold KK and QQ but at the final table this is a completely different scenario and a completely different game
 
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dainius.ramanauskas

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Seems like your doing the right thing, with an over pair on the flop, and the board being very draw heavy make sure your always the last one that has raised. Unless you suspect he has a better over pair.
 
Beanfacekilla

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We need hands man. Actual examples of spots.


However, think about this....


Hands like combo draws, SD/FD have a ton of equity against you, some are even favorites on the flop. You have to realize the value of 10c-10d for example, on a board say 2s-4d-7s....

Like we can bet for value, but, conversely, if we are getting it in on 2-7-4ssd, we have to know we are at best going to be a slight favorite (most of the time), or just losing to sets.

We need to be specific though about spots. You should be aware of table dynamics, how people play, what they raise with, are they capable of semi-bluffing with draws, current stack sizes, etc, etc.

Generally I think it's safe to say we bet, until we run into resistance, and if we do, we really need to think it through man. Each spot is dynamic and there are so many factors that go into a decision...


Yeah that's all I can think of ATM.
 
Adriemoren

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One of the largest leaks in my game is when I open with a decent pair (1010 or better) and the flop comes 3 under cards with 2 being suited. Its common today for folks to call opening raises with lower suited connectors and gappers. These flops allow for all kinds of opportunity with straights and flush draws plus they also can hit 2 pair or the dreaded set. So I make the cbet 2/3 pot trying to get value for the over pair and defend vs the drawing hands. Often at this time the villain will re-raise the looking to get both streets of the draw for cheap. Once I know their image and feel fairly good the pair is ahead I 4 bet to make them pay. Maybe this is the error but anyway often the chips get all in and they hit the draw. I go busto. So any suggestions how to defend the overpair to a flop of undercards containing 2 of a suit?
Always raise preflop, and reraise if necesary
 
Marcos mats

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even though it's still the hands that I leave most AA / KK / QQ tournaments, I always try to defend those hands, because I believe they win more than they lose, of course, online when we have the best pairs most of the time. The villain too will be with pairs (high, medium and connectors) mainly in pokerstars. lol.
We are together.
😎👊
 
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PotPlucker

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Thanks for all the replies and good advice. In general guess my approach is not so much a leak but more result due to the variance. Point taken from BeanFaceKilla that more specific hand history is needed for good analysis. As I get used to posting here will certainly ask q's with better detail of the hand.
 
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Mauno

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Raise preflop and if it doesnt work then bet and be prepared to fold on turn. There is always somebody with 98 winning against KK
 
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marakhovskii

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I do not do it when I do not overestimate any pair, and I know what the task is at a certain stage of the tournament. Smile send your pairs in pass.
 
sryulaw

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defeder it with the smallest number of players is already a great start! if the flop is with a flush, and you do not have a flush card, I think it is better to go check on the turn, then you decide to bet on the river or not! control the pot no, if you are not hands it is better to have control of what happens and decrease the losses if the opponent is in front of you!
 
Masi2197

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I do not usually call or bet strong with this pair if my position is the first, because usually always someone will match with AQ or K so I wait a little the flop all depemde the movements of my rivals if I am in last position I will do a big bet to eliminate pescaditos
 
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CryptoBlood

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When i want to defent my big pair i increase bet depends in which situaction I am and it depends VS which player I play,if it is fish i increase bet really good and if it is some smart guy i dont increase my bet less.
 
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colbear

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Well, there's this guy I watch who always says you're betting for value against draws, not for defense. If you lose on a draw as you describe that's just bad luck, and there isn't anything to learn from that, you have good odds with your over pair and just need to make good decisions. Flush draws are pretty hard to get, you can't worry about them too much or it'll hurt you elsewhere.


I agree 100% if you getting it in ahead you are doing the right thing . Don't change your game based on bad luck it will have you playing way too tight and cost you more..If it's against a really tight player playing 10 to 15% of their VP and ftcbet 50% or better then maybe they hit something or have a real good draw maybe openended w a flush draw or a better pair pre so then maybe I let it go otherwise You are playing ine these things happen .
 
Acesinthebig

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Well, there's this guy I watch who always says you're betting for value against draws, not for defense. If you lose on a draw as you describe that's just bad luck, and there isn't anything to learn from that, you have good odds with your over pair and just need to make good decisions. Flush draws are pretty hard to get, you can't worry about them too much or it'll hurt you elsewhere.

I agree bet them for value. Don't let the draws, draw for free. On the other hand a pair is just a pair. Don't get crazy with just a pair in most cases. If you bet it properly preflop and limit it to one or two callers you should be good with a big pair for the most part.
 
milka1605

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try playing more aggressively. I think this will discourage the enemy from calling your bet.
 
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morigor

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Depending on the style of the play of players. May bay need slow play...
 
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pietpikel

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One of the largest leaks in my game is when I open with a decent pair (1010 or better) and the flop comes 3 under cards with 2 being suited. Its common today for folks to call opening raises with lower suited connectors and gappers. These flops allow for all kinds of opportunity with straights and flush draws plus they also can hit 2 pair or the dreaded set. So I make the cbet 2/3 pot trying to get value for the over pair and defend vs the drawing hands. Often at this time the villain will re-raise the looking to get both streets of the draw for cheap. Once I know their image and feel fairly good the pair is ahead I 4 bet to make them pay. Maybe this is the error but anyway often the chips get all in and they hit the draw. I go busto. So any suggestions how to defend the overpair to a flop of undercards containing 2 of a suit?
Well, in my opinion there are two different scenarios here.

Deep stacked and short stacked. This is really not short stacked scenario. In that case the money (either your short stack, or your opponents) is going in !

With deep stacks, the game becomes implied odds. People call the flop with any range of speculative hands, hoping to destack you. In a deep stack game, your bets are not really to make somebody fold. They must gather you information !

If you have multi callers to your preflop raise, your over pair is already vulnerable. SO 1st thing in a deep stack game is not to let other deep stacks see the flop too cheap. BUT, if 3 people come along (excluding you), you already have problems. SO more than 2 callers I already advise caution. At least one of the 3 called with a pocket pair, someone probably called with AQ AJ suited and somebody probably has a lower 67 78 89 suited.

When a flop comes 2 cards of a suite, or coordinated (456 7810 89 J) you need to be careful. Even more careful if it's coordinated and suited.Your continuation bet here will not move someone off the hand if they have hit a draw. Will AJ (of diamonds) be moved off a 457 (2 diamond) flop ? Never, NO CHANCE !

SO my question is this ? What does your continue bet achieve ?

Against 3 opponents, I believe it achieves very little. Against 1 or 2 opponent/s it is worth it. Against 3 or more, NO, someone will have hit something !
Against 2 or less opponents make a 3/4 pot sized bet. You can win the hand right here.
Against 3 or more, make a 2/5th's pot sized bet to gain information. An opponent with a draw would probably flat call. AN opponent with a made hand will probably reraise you! You must find out your strength, relative to theirs ! Don't overpay for this information !

Understand that if someone is on a draw, and you bet big (on the flop), they will probably raise you all in. Do you want to be all in or pot committed with 1 over pair ? Probably not !

At this stage they normally have 10 outs x 2 cards to come, so you are prob a 2-1 fav to win the hand (assuming your overpair is good at this stage). If you get the money in on the turn, and show more caution on the flop, you reduce the variance massively (you are now a 4-1 favorite).
Hopefully, your opponent is a decent player, and also understands that they are a 4-1 underdog, to make their draw on the river.

So it's situation dependent.

Big stacks or small stacks.
How many callers to your raise.
Your position in the hand.
The actual flop (overcards or coordinated board) ?


the bottom line is you are fighting variance, and the easiest way to reduce variance is to get more money in on the turn, instead of the flop.
 
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deform fedot

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If you are confident in you hand, than apply strong attack, the best defence its attack, axample: bet bank.
 
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