Do not put the clock down at the hand for hand

CadoARAJ

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At CC freerolls or at any payed tournament that you play online, you should NOT slow your action until the clock goes down at the hand for hand mode play before the bubble blows. This will only you and your oponents loose time that you/them can spend doing other things beside poker.

So, at the CC freerolls be aware:

At ACR/BCP the hand for hand mode starts at when there are one more player for table before the bubble blows. Nowadays that most all ACR/BCP freerolls are paying 27 players, the hand for hand mode starts with 30 players. So, watch out when there are 30 players or less, until 28, you have to play fast, because put the clock down to 0 will not let any advantage to you.

At pokerstars nowadays are paying 45 players, so the hand for hand mode starts at 46 players and also there are another hand for hand mode before the final table, when there are 10 players. With 46 players or with 10 players you have to play fast and not put the clock down.

At BOL and SB the hand for hand starts with 16 when pays 15 and with 11 when pays 10;

And all other sites are the same system. Please let make the game smarter and you can slow the clock down at the right time when you are short stacked, but NEVER when we are at HAND FOR HAND mode, because it does not make any difference or advantage to you, but only will make you loose your precious time. Ty.
 
oneybiggs

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yeap....what can i say...i guess for some players it is more luck than skill...can i get an amen.
 
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Clandestine05

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THANK YOU for posting this! lol I can't stand when people drag the time on hand for hand play.
 
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Cloxy

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Could someone explain what does the hand for hand mode ???

Thanks.
 
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tribalbeast

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Could someone explain what does the hand for hand mode ???

Thanks.



hand for hand means its so close to the money in a tourney that at the end of each hand you must wait for all other tables to be done their hand before another one begins. I'm assuming this happens to accurately determine who lost there stack first. This happens until all remaining players are in the money (the bubble bursts)... Players will often tank away all their time when they are shortstacked in the hopes that someone else will go out first and they can "ladder up" into the money. I think its a good play i disagree with OP.

just kidding i agree with op i read that wrong
 
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Cloxy

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hand for hand means its so close to the money in a tourney that at the end of each hand you must wait for all other tables to be done their hand before another one begins. I'm assuming this happens to accurately determine who lost there stack first. This happens until all remaining players are in the money (the bubble bursts)... Players will often tank away all their time when they are shortstacked in the hopes that someone else will go out first and they can "ladder up" into the money. I think its a good play i disagree with OP.


So how we define who is leaving first if several players are out at the same time on the different tables?? By stack size?
 
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tribalbeast

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So how we define who is leaving first if several players are out at the same time on the different tables?? By stack size?



yup if they are out at the same time then the higher stack at the beginning of the hand is awarded the higher finish
 
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bzvz222

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At CC freerolls or at any payed tournament that you play online, you should NOT slow your action until the clock goes down at the hand for hand mode play before the bubble blows. This will only you and your oponents loose time that you/them can spend doing other things beside poker.

So, at the CC freerolls be aware:

At ACR/BCP the hand for hand mode starts at when there are one more player for table before the bubble blows. Nowadays that most all ACR/BCP freerolls are paying 27 players, the hand for hand mode starts with 30 players. So, watch out when there are 30 players or less, until 28, you have to play fast, because put the clock down to 0 will not let any advantage to you.

At pokerstars nowadays are paying 45 players, so the hand for hand mode starts at 46 players and also there are another hand for hand mode before the final table, when there are 10 players. With 46 players or with 10 players you have to play fast and not put the clock down.

At BOL and SB the hand for hand starts with 16 when pays 15 and with 11 when pays 10;

And all other sites are the same system. Please let make the game smarter and you can slow the clock down at the right time when you are short stacked, but NEVER when we are at HAND FOR HAND mode, because it does not make any difference or advantage to you, but only will make you loose your precious time. Ty.

Yeah that really is not neccessary. However, I have seen some players wasting time for no reason at all as well. The bubble is not even close and their stack will not last another round of blinds, but they wait anyway.. no sense in that
 
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Yes, there seems to be a lot of freeroll and micro players (but not in the CC tourneys, fortunately) where people don't understand what hand-for-hand play means, and they'll run the clock down at that point when it does them no good. It seems to be explained well that the next hand won't be dealt until all action in the current hands is completed, so I assume it's new or infrequent players that don't speak/read English who do this mostly.

I think I'm quite realistic about when I sit on the clock, hoping to reach the money, and most people catch on to what I'm doing, but the odd player will still type in the standard "ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ".
 
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FrothyGoodness

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it's hilarious because I get the running of the clock but the people I see doing this are people that have Short almost bubble stacks. Like if the blinds are 750 and you only have a 6k stack...you of all people shouldn't be trying to waste time dummy, you should be trying to see as many hands as possible before you get limped out. People with Large stacks top 5 stacks I can see doing it ESPECIALLY if you're at a table full of Bubble hitchers but other than that Yeah keep the damn table moving
 
riverokker

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Its brutal when you see players do this. Źzzzzzz is right. Wake up little Suzy smell the salt. It slows done the action so bad. I find the bubble a awesome time to get chips. Whenever everyone is so worried about making the bubble. I spend my time picking on small stacks. Good luck at the tables. [emoji812]️
 
Cajin007

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Some players use this tactic so as to make it into the money, and others use it to try and increase the blinds so as to try and knock out the smallest stacks.
I personally think if a person stalls, to increase the blinds so the shortest stacks are pushed all-in with anything, is a sign of a weak player.
Of course, if a short stack is the one stalling, they may very-well have a reason for doing so, and can't really blame them for trying a tactic that may or may not work for them.
 
finaltable1

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It's great to run the bubble game faster when you've got big stack, can't disagree with that.
but
There is another explanation why shortstacked players are wasting the time during hand for hand play.
I think that this is the reason why you've wrote this post.
Most of us don't like it too, but that's life.
here is an explanation:

Let's say I have 1500 chips, and you have 30K chips. You're the chipleader, i'm at the bottom of the list. Blinds are 200-400 and I'm at the button, blinds have passed through me.

My stack is 3.5bb, your stack is 75bb.

at this point it doesn't really matter if my stack is 1 or 3 or 5 bb, so if I will waste time and blinds will go up to 600, then to 800, it means that my stack will be just 1bb, but your stack will go down from 75 bb to 38bb.
It means that bigger stack is going down faster than smaller stack.
If smaller stack will double up, then he might work on timer again and wait couple of rounds for blinds to go up from 800 to 1200, then 30K stack will be just 24bb...
If smaller stack will double up again and wait couple more rounds, then bigger stack will go down again...
SO in general it will be harder for bigger stack to steal blinds from short stack if the difference between them isn't really big.

Another explanation to the timer is psychological.
Some players play to win 1st place, other players play to hit the money. Some players have strategy that allows them to play loose hands with shorter stacks. For example if stack is under 10bb, some players include hands like JK in their push/call range.

Sometimes most patient wins. That's all.

Just to remind you that game has the same rules for everyone, same timer, same starting stacks... and each player has a right to decide how to play his chips and how to use his timer.

So, in general, this post reminds me something like "Please let me win your chips and don't do things that I don't like, because I know how to play poker better than others"
Music to my ears...
Chill out. Some players are praying during poker games, and they simply make their moves after the "Amen", that's why it takes so long during the bubble, lol :evil:
 
CadoARAJ

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It's great to run the bubble game faster when you've got big stack, can't disagree with that.
but
There is another explanation why shortstacked players are wasting the time during hand for hand play.
I think that this is the reason why you've wrote this post.
Most of us don't like it too, but that's life.
here is an explanation:

Let's say I have 1500 chips, and you have 30K chips. You're the chipleader, i'm at the bottom of the list. Blinds are 200-400 and I'm at the button, blinds have passed through me.

My stack is 3.5bb, your stack is 75bb.

at this point it doesn't really matter if my stack is 1 or 3 or 5 bb, so if I will waste time and blinds will go up to 600, then to 800, it means that my stack will be just 1bb, but your stack will go down from 75 bb to 38bb.
It means that bigger stack is going down faster than smaller stack.
If smaller stack will double up, then he might work on timer again and wait couple of rounds for blinds to go up from 800 to 1200, then 30K stack will be just 24bb...
If smaller stack will double up again and wait couple more rounds, then bigger stack will go down again...
SO in general it will be harder for bigger stack to steal blinds from short stack if the difference between them isn't really big.

Another explanation to the timer is psychological.
Some players play to win 1st place, other players play to hit the money. Some players have strategy that allows them to play loose hands with shorter stacks. For example if stack is under 10bb, some players include hands like JK in their push/call range.

Sometimes most patient wins. That's all.

Just to remind you that game has the same rules for everyone, same timer, same starting stacks... and each player has a right to decide how to play his chips and how to use his timer.

So, in general, this post reminds me something like "Please let me win your chips and don't do things that I don't like, because I know how to play poker better than others"
Music to my ears...
Chill out. Some players are praying during poker games, and they simply make their moves after the "Amen", that's why it takes so long during the bubble, lol :evil:

LOL. That’s a good point. But in regular games the increasing time is more longer than at turbo modes.
It is just a suggestion, not a recomendation, because I think we loose more time than win chips when we are at the bottom of chips at the bubble.
I liked your points. Ty.
 
finaltable1

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LOL. That’s a good point. But in regular games the increasing time is more longer than at turbo modes.
It is just a suggestion, not a recomendation, because I think we loose more time than win chips when we are at the bottom of chips at the bubble.
I liked your points. Ty.


Yeah I kinda don't like to lose time too, that's why i'm working, listening and watching things during my poker sessions.... or having poker sessions during my job, which is the same. That's why I don't care much what people say at the tables, don't care about how the game goes on, don't bother about timers and such. I don't even have sound alarms. I simply press raise button when i see that KK+ hand, that's all. I might be shocked with some dumb actions of some players, but this is something that i like about poker, even if i lose to such dumb actions.
But I do understand your feelings about players who wait till the last second of timer during each hand. I had that stressful feeling long time ago, but it dissapeared. All players want to win, it's in human nature, so they will use any option to stay alive, if they haven't got aces, they will use other options... Just take everything with a smile, that's a game after all.

You know, I've won 80 euro yesterday starting with a freerolls, had 7 final tables and 8 cashes in small MTTs and freerolls, also actually won Double Trouble challenge too, another 30$. But haven't enjoyed it at all. What I really liked during the yesterday is that i've finished drawing plans for a new machine during these poker games. That was the best result of the day. And I haven't paid any attention at the poker tables to how they play, what they say, who they are, where are they from... In my case poker is just few seconds during each minute, rest of the minute is spent on work and studying. I made plans for a machine and will create this machine during March.

If you're feeling that someone is wasting your time during poker game, then try to change the situation in your favor, learn programming or CAD or study some other things that you can do during your time at the poker tables. You're experienced enough to play several tables and do something else, don't you? Why can't this "something else" be a profitable and interesting time spending for you? You see, I've enjoyed the drawings more than poker winnings, because I have goals set for the future, and that's the reason why I'm not feeling that I'm wasting my time. My goals include creation of different objects, I often have that "creators feeling" when I've welded, programmed or machined something... Poker isn't giving this feeling. Ask yourself - what is the useful product that poker player creates for this world? Poker players are trying to steal each others money, but at the end of the day-month-year the poker site steals all of the money of all players. Poker is giving a portion of hormons when you're wining or losing, it's kinda real feeling created by virtual object, that can't be touched or used. So that virtual object can be useful only when and if it's giving you a profit, but after all, this virtual object does not create any real product except for hormonal waves.

So, that feeling of wasted time will be growing with time, just because you're not making a useful product for your future, for the society and for this world in general. Try to change it, and the feeling of wasted time will dissapear, even when they're running that bubble timer. Amen
 
KingDodz

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Thanks for the post i get extremely annoyed when people are timing out or sitting out around the hand for hand play. Some people really need that min cash i guess, but i think if your gonna play a tournament you should always be playing for the win and not a minimum cash? anyone else agree or have some imput? :jd4:
 
VIP_TARIFF

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At CC freerolls or at any payed tournament that you play online, you should NOT slow your action until the clock goes down at the hand for hand mode play before the bubble blows. This will only you and your oponents loose time that you/them can spend doing other things beside poker.

So, at the CC freerolls be aware:

At ACR/BCP the hand for hand mode starts at when there are one more player for table before the bubble blows. Nowadays that most all ACR/BCP freerolls are paying 27 players, the hand for hand mode starts with 30 players. So, watch out when there are 30 players or less, until 28, you have to play fast, because put the clock down to 0 will not let any advantage to you.

At pokerstars nowadays are paying 45 players, so the hand for hand mode starts at 46 players and also there are another hand for hand mode before the final table, when there are 10 players. With 46 players or with 10 players you have to play fast and not put the clock down.

At BOL and SB the hand for hand starts with 16 when pays 15 and with 11 when pays 10;

And all other sites are the same system. Please let make the game smarter and you can slow the clock down at the right time when you are short stacked, but NEVER when we are at HAND FOR HAND mode, because it does not make any difference or advantage to you, but only will make you loose your precious time. Ty.


I also do not like when the players pull time, but they think so to get to it, which is not good. Sometimes this practice works, for example, a bounty hunter allowed me to get into itm.:call2:
 
skaniol

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In most cases, the wasting of time during hand-for-hand is absolutely pointless. I know you made this topic to inform the people who aren't aware of that. I hope it will reach at least some of them. I mentioned the issue in one of my first posts here too. Not only they were wasting time during hand-for-hand, but they also openly discussed their teamwork in the chat. The latter is prohibited, according to PS's tournament rules. You can get punished for that. I bet they weren't aware, so let's quote the rules just in case:
Poker is an individual (not a team) game. Any action or chat intended to help another player is unethical and is prohibited. Unethical play, such as soft-play (playing less aggressively against a partner) and chip dumping (intentionally losing chips to a partner), may result in penalties, including seizure of funds from the offender's account and/or termination of the account. We routinely review game play to look for violations of our rules and to ensure the integrity of our games. It may be necessary to withhold player winnings until the completion of game play reviews.

Don't forget that time wasting is perfectly legal, though. You can do whatever you want with the time you are given to act. I wouldn't even say it's bad etiquette, because an online poker tournament is a free-for-all, last man standing, psychological liars game, where real $$$ are at stake. Unlike live poker, our options to influence the other players are pretty limited. The time we take to end our turns can be used for this. In fact, if I see someone typing "zzzzzzzz" and complaining about the time, I'll take a note. If all it takes to make them tilt is to abuse the clock, then I can exploit that. You have to understand what you are getting into when you decide to play a psychological game like poker. Your emotional intelligence is crucial. You can't afford to be annoyed by the actions of the rest of the players, especially when these actions fall within the rules. Don't get me wrong! I am not saying that you should try to annoy the rest of the players by being an ***, just because you want them in a weakened state of mind. Even when you aren't breaking the rules, this can backfire easily. One must not forget The Silver Rule—“What you do not wish done to you, do not do to others.”



Some people really need that min cash i guess, but i think if your gonna play a tournament you should always be playing for the win and not a minimum cash? anyone else agree or have some imput? :jd4:
There is a big difference between min cash and -1 buy-in. Sometimes the tournament doesn't turn well. You may not be a favorite to win it anymore. This doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to at least recover your buy-in, when you have the opportunity. Yes, taking more risks in order to achieve better results than the min cash, is a better strategy in the long run, because the real value is in the top few places. If you want to reduce the variance, though, you may sacrifice some value in order to secure more cashes. Such a strategy is safer, and you can afford to play tournaments with a BR below the recommended 100 buy-ins.
 
Rob Hobson

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During a poker section you can do whatever you can if it's not against the rules. Etiquette is not frequently questioned in poker online games.
You can scream and shout about those actions.

Best of Luck.
 
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Actually if you are strategically trying to blind some people out, it's a viable strategy even then. While hand for hand is in play, blind levels are still going up. So depending on how short you are on chips, or you want to pick off an opponent, it can make sense to do it during hand for hand play too.

For example, if you are sitting on 2000 chips, you are basically the bubble, and you know the entire table will call you anyway, but there is another player with 3000, current blinds at 2000/1000, if they just past you, you can try and wait for them to move up to 4000/2000 forcing the next player all-in before you.
 
djasset

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ignition doesn't h4h, you can jump a lot of paid positions with smart time management. (haha, and you're anonymous)
 
Pimp 007 x

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This seems logical enough... Yet people still play the clock even after a clear announcement in the chat box.


I have no problem if they do it pre hand for hand, though, as an strategy to get into the money. I usually stall as well, even if I'm in no immediate danger of losing, just in case.

However, I really dislike people who use every second of their time limit in each hand, just to be jerks... Specially in ring games.
 
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