CC freerolls = MTT w ABI~10$ and ROI 10%, or MTT w ABI~5$ and ROI 20%

[BelFish]

I figured that i can participate in about 60 freerolls from CC per month with an average expectation in terms of the number of participants ($1/1freeroll). And this is essentially the same as playing 60 MTTs with an average buy-in of $10 with ROI = 10%, since 10% of $10 is exactly equal to the expectation of $1 from one game.

For the last 5 months i've been keeping statistics on how much i won in CC freerolls for each month: during this time i averaged almost $90 per month (in the worst month of the last 5 it was $70). So for me, these freerolls for this period turned out to be similar to playing 2 MTTs per day with an average buy-in of $15 with a ROI of 10%, or with an average buy-in of $10 with a ROI of 15%

I'm wondering what is the average ROI for good MTT players with these buy-ins?

 

[BelFish]

Maybe it's better to move the topic to the MTT section? At first i wanted to place it there, but i made a mistake with the section. It seems to me that in that section there is a higher chance that MTT players who play at medium buy-ins will answer...

 

[neptunas888]

Cool stats, man! I would choose to play less often but with a higher buy-in, this game attracts me more. As for my stats, I'm not that good of a player at the moment

 

[BelFish]

And at the same time, i don’t know if i would have at least 3% ROI for buy-ins 2$-5$ )))
I just don't have much time to play MTT, mostly i play HU SnGs...

That's why i'm wondering what the average ROI for winning players of MTTs with different buy-ins. For example, for buy-ins 1$, 2$, 5$ and 10$.

By the average ROI of winning players, i mean the average value taken for the entire sample of players with ROI>0, i.e. not taking into account ROI with negative values. I don’t know if there are such statistics on any sites like sharkscope...

 

[BelFish]

I think that for freerolls it is better to watch something like a "normalized" ROI. That is, it is necessary to consider as if all participants make buy-ins equal to the prize pool divided by the number of participants. Then, in the end, we will get the value of ROI equal not to infinity, but to some specific value.


Since the beginning of this month, i started counting my "normalized ROI" in freerolls. This is done as follows: the total winnings in all played freerolls are calculated, then the indicator (prize fund / players) is calculated for each freeroll - and these numbers with an increase of 10% (reflecting the rake in MTT) are conditional buy-ins. Then it is possible to calculate the analogue of ROI as in MTT. So far, taking into account the last win 3 days ago, more than 200% came out (where the conditional buy-in was a little more than $1, and the winnings were $31.5), and for these couple of days without winnings, this number for the "normalized" ROI is gradually decreasing.

But over the past half a year, i think the normalized ROI was something in the region, probably 50% -70%. You won’t know this now, because there is not all the data on the number of freerolls played and the number of participants in them during that time. It would be possible to estimate purely by the largest winnings and by the average number of freerolls and participants, but this would be a very rough calculation. Well, at least this month at the end i'll see what happens with the final figure...

 

[Marshmalo1994]

That's interesting! I think that the only difference is the chance of having a first place in a $10-15 BI MTT, the ROI could be occasionally much higher.

 

[BelFish]

Yesterday was like this:

Total freeroll winnings this month: 43.16$

The amount of conditional buy-ins with the addition of 10% for the rake: 14.1$+1.41$=15.51$

The normalized ROI was equal to:

ROI'=[(43.16-15.51)/15.51]*100%=178.3%

And today i won in 2 freerolls on 888 and on PS: $6+1.75$

Conditional buy-ins:
888: 100$/95=1.05$
BI1=1.05$+0.11$=1.16$

PS: 100$/177=0.57$
BI2=0.57$+0.06$=0.63$

The total winnings became: 50.91$

ROI''=[(50.91-17.3)/17.3]*100%=194.4%

A total of 19 freerolls have been played and the number of passes in ITM is 7.

P. S. Let's see what happens to these figures at the end of the month...

 

[jordanbillie]

I figured that i can participate in about 60 freerolls from CC per month with an average expectation in terms of the number of participants ($1/1freeroll). And this is essentially the same as playing 60 MTTs with an average buy-in of $10 with ROI = 10%, since 10% of $10 is exactly equal to the expectation of $1 from one game.

For the last 5 months i've been keeping statistics on how much i won in CC freerolls for each month: during this time i averaged almost $90 per month (in the worst month of the last 5 it was $70). So for me, these freerolls for this period turned out to be similar to playing 2 MTTs per day with an average buy-in of $15 with a ROI of 10%, or with an average buy-in of $10 with a ROI of 15%

I'm wondering what is the average ROI for good MTT players with these buy-ins?

The really good MTT players seem to have ROIs around 35% and ITM is around 33%. The "30/30" rule is great to shoot for!

Another tier is slightly below this which is like 25%ITM and 15%ROI.

A good practice is to find upper tier players and code them a certain color so you can identify what they are doing to achieve those excellent results.

 

[BelFish]

Probably at low limits, for example with $1 and $2 buy-ins, maybe ROI to be and 70% over a long distance?

For example, here in this thread, Only_player posted his game results in about 3000 MTTs:

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cardschat-freerolls-31/never-last-at-888-but-been-516716/

I don't know, maybe it's a small distance and if he plays longer it will be very difficult to maintain the level for this ROI value. But still, his graph looks very smooth and most likely it will continue to be the same...

 

[BelFish]

As i understand it, the currency there is not in dollars, but in hryvnias.

Although, i can’t understand why he got an ROI of 75.9% there, and not 42.4%

After all, the total profit is 44849, and the total bet was 33.72*3139=105847

44849/105847=0.424 or ROI=+42.4%

 

[jordanbillie]

Probably at low limits, for example with $1 and $2 buy-ins, maybe ROI to be and 70% over a long distance?

I was speaking about the $10 range you asked about.

30/30 is the gold standard for all limits.

I've played with many who can sustain 30/30 results.

P.S. I can provide you with my personal stats if you'd like.

 

[jordanbillie]

Bovdur is a 33/36 in $1 games.

 

[BelFish]

P.S. I can provide you with my personal stats if you'd like.

Thank you! It would be interesting to take a look. I read your challenge blog and saw some stats there, like this one on sharkscope:



Great results!

But statistics with filters would be more interesting, for example, for MTT limits of $1 and $2

P.S. Do i understand correctly that in absolutely all tournaments you register at the very last moment of late registration?

 

[jordanbillie]

Thank you! It would be interesting to take a look. I read your challenge blog and saw some stats there, like this one on sharkscope:



Great results!

But statistics with filters would be more interesting, for example, for MTT limits of $1 and $2

P.S. Do i understand correctly that in absolutely all tournaments you register at the very last moment of late registration?

Nice!

So those stats got a little better actually, check out the updated ITM and ROIs:





Jbillie has more games because I played a bunch of HU SNGs a couple years ago, while Mr. Tao Jones is almost exclusively MTTs. I'd say my itm/roi is probably 40/60 for MTTs of all buyins (40% ITM/60% ROI).

To see specific results by stake you can do this on sharkscope, even with the free version. From the 'Graphs' tab, you just need to click on 'Results by Stake' and you can see the most frequently played stakes and the ROI by stake.

For example, I've played 227 games at $1 on the 'Mr. Tao Jones' account, with an ROI of 109.8%. If you do this on sharkscope, you can just hover over anything with your mouse to see the roi or games played.

What is pretty neat is that I don't have a negative ROI at any stake!



I use this function on both of my account 'Jbillie' and 'Mr. Tao Jones' to get a good idea of how I am performing at each level/stake. I'm doing a pretty good job of maintaining my 50-60% ROI at almost every stake (the $20s are only about 18% right now, but that is mostly due to low volume and the lack of a big cash so far )

I hope this helps!

 

[BelFish]

Thanks for such a detailed answer!

Do i understand correctly that in absolutely all tournaments you register at the very last moment of late registration?

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By the way, i have about $ 500 on SB and BOL in total, which i won in CC freerolls. But i was too lazy to play there after the CC freerolls are dissapears. And this money is just gathering dust there )))

Your results of the game in MTT inspire me greatly! I'm even starting to think "maybe i must start to play tournaments with this bankroll 500$?" ))

Who knows, maybe i could also become a very good player of MTTs. During more than 15 years playing poker, i played very few tournaments, probably no more than 100 tournaments of NLH ))
And in one tournament with BI 10$, i won about 1000$.

Mainly i played the SnGs HU and a lot of freerolls. My biggest win was in freeroll. It was freeroll of PokerStrategy for participants with gold status. Exactly 1500 people participated in it and for the first place i received about 1200$.

I don’t know if there is a big difference MTTs games compared to freerolls, but for play in freerolls i seem to have good results ))

 

[jordanbillie]

Thanks for such a detailed answer!

Do i understand correctly that in absolutely all tournaments you register at the very last moment of late registration?

------------------

By the way, i have about $ 500 on SB and BOL in total, which i won in CC freerolls. But i was too lazy to play there after the CC freerolls are dissapears. And this money is just gathering dust there )))

Your results of the game in MTT inspire me greatly! I'm even starting to think "maybe i must start to play tournaments with this bankroll 500$?" ))

Who knows, maybe i could also become a very good player of MTTs. During more than 15 years playing poker, i played very few tournaments, probably no more than 100 tournaments of NLH ))
And in one tournament with BI 10$, i won about 1000$.

Mainly i played the SnGs HU and a lot of freerolls. My biggest win was in freeroll. It was freeroll of PokerStrategy for participants with gold status. Exactly 1500 people participated in it and for the first place i received about 1200$.

I don’t know if there is a big difference MTTs games compared to freerolls, but for play in freerolls i seem to have good results ))

Yes, I last minute late register all of my MTTs.

Your freeroll results and your experience suggest that you should be able to sustain a win rate at real money MTTs. I wouldn't be surprised if you could maintain 15 - 20% ROI just with your "freeroll style" of play.

With $500 just collecting dust, I'd suggest playing some $1 and $2 MTTs to start getting comfortable with the real money games. Honestly, the games don't differ much at all between the low and mid stakes. So if you can get a few hundred games in at $1 and $2 stakes, you should start to get an idea of where your game is at, and what type of ROI you might be able to expect.

What time zone are you in/what time of day do you like to play? I can suggest some MTTs for you to try if you'd like.

 

[BelFish]

What time zone are you in/what time of day do you like to play? I can suggest some MTTs for you to try if you'd like.

In general, there is no difference what time to play. I don’t work, but i live with money from the poker, so it’s convenient to play at any time of the day

I would like tournaments like CC freerolls, that is, those in which there are few participants (100-300).

P.S. Now almost 22.00 and now CC freeroll starts on 888.

 

[ipagan]

So are you still playing only freerolls? Otherwise I don't understand the question itself really, what do you whant to know?

 

[jordanbillie]

In general, there is no difference what time to play. I don’t work, but i live with money from the poker, so it’s convenient to play at any time of the day

I would like tournaments like CC freerolls, that is, those in which there are few participants (100-300).

P.S. Now almost 22.00 and now CC freeroll starts on 888.

You will like Chico (BetOnline/SportsBetting) because the average MTT field is around 150 - 250 players.

I think you should try a $1 rebuy and addon tournament. Most of the R/As on Chico have 50% off rebuys/addon so the rebuys/addon for the $1s are only 50 cents. So if you do the full buy-in for 3 "units" (which is an absolute must if you want to play rebuys) it will only cost you $1.10 + 0.60 + 0.60 or $2.30. The best registration tactic I have found for R/As is to register about 2 minutes before the addon break (5K stack) and rebuy immediately (another 5K). Then you obviously also take the add-on during the break (another 10K), so you are in for a total of 3 "units" for a stack of 20,000. When play resumes after the break, blinds are 400/800, which gives you 25BB and plenty of fish to get chips from.

The rebuy/addon MTTs on Chico are absolute gold mines and my hope is that you find how to use the $1s as a way to keep money coming into your BR. Just try a couple and notice how you can play disciplined preflop, and take advantage of those whom are not.

Good Luck! I'll be keeping my eye out for ya!

 

[MAGICUZ]

I figured that i can participate in about 60 freerolls from CC per month with an average expectation in terms of the number of participants ($1/1freeroll). And this is essentially the same as playing 60 MTTs with an average buy-in of $10 with ROI = 10%, since 10% of $10 is exactly equal to the expectation of $1 from one game.

For the last 5 months i've been keeping statistics on how much i won in CC freerolls for each month: during this time i averaged almost $90 per month (in the worst month of the last 5 it was $70). So for me, these freerolls for this period turned out to be similar to playing 2 MTTs per day with an average buy-in of $15 with a ROI of 10%, or with an average buy-in of $10 with a ROI of 15%

I'm wondering what is the average ROI for good MTT players with these buy-ins?

This is certainly good, but after 5 months of stable play in freerolls, you win something to withdraw funds?Do freerolls benefit you, do you make money, or is your time wasted?

 

[BelFish]

So are you still playing only freerolls? Otherwise I don't understand the question itself really, what do you whant to know?

From tournaments, yes, only freerolls. I like these CC freerolls with a small number of participants because they have a very friendly atmosphere. I play them in the evenings while watching movies. And i get great pleasure from it, because tournaments are the most interesting format of poker.

And for profit, i mainly play SnGs HU.

The question was exactly about the typical ROI of good MTT players, and i already got an answer to it...

 

[BelFish]

This is certainly good, but after 5 months of stable play in freerolls, you win something to withdraw funds?Do freerolls benefit you, do you make money, or is your time wasted?

I seriously started playing CC freerolls about exactly half a year ago, and before that i played them carelessly, for fun, and sometimes i could push all sorts of garbagge hands at the very beginning. Now i rather perceive them as a practice of playing in tournaments with buy-ins, because after all, our freerolls have a fairly strong field of players. Well, with a more serious approach to the game, playing is no less interesting

So i don't see it as a waste of time, although the freeroll winnings per month are not very big, about 70$-$100 per month during this 6 months. But anyway, i would spend the same time watching movies. And i watch movies and play at the same time. And this is a double pleasure )))

--------------------

I have been withdrawing money regularly for more than 15 years, mainly from the game in SnGs HU.

 

[BelFish]

You will like Chico (BetOnline/SportsBetting) because the average MTT field is around 150 - 250 players.

I think you should try a $1 rebuy and addon tournament.

Good Luck! I'll be keeping my eye out for ya!

Thank you for your advice with such a detailed description!

I think that i will try to play in the near future...