Ask Collin Moshman and Katie Dozier About Sit ‘n Goes!

[BigFatRat]

Thanks Bigfatrat! The biggest adjustment for turbos is the importance of shove/fold ranges, both open-shoving and 3-bet shoving. Here are a few tips for this type of game:

• Shove/fold with a stack of 10bb (no ante) or 15bb (with an ante);

• Shove any non-junk hand in the small blind;

• Jam over raises with a stack of 20bb (no ante) or 25bb (with an ante);

• Jam a lot over small blind limps when you're the big blind;

• Shove wide as the big stack on the bubble and tighter as the mid stack.

Software like Holdem Resources and ICMizer is very useful, and Holdem Resources has a free tool as well at their site. Good luck in the turbos!

Thanks for the fast reply, Collin.

Of the above, I have been doing the all in when the small blind limps when I’m big blind. Only once in 33 SNGs did I get slow played (he had AK, I jammed with KTs). I would estimate that I have done it on average once a tourney, so 32/33 success rate isn’t bad at all! A couple of those times I got called and had opponent dominated, as well.

Follow up question, if you don’t mind:

I put together a little spreadsheet to track my stats (ROI, 30 day profit projection, place distribution, probability of getting 1st, et al). For the probability of getting 1st, I take the number of times I make it to a specific spot (4th, for example), and calculate my chance of winning the tourney based upon past performance.

My question is, should I take that probability into account when making equity decisions? I ask because 27% of my finishes are 4th/5th (too many for my liking). My percent chances of winning are 38% once I make it to 5 left, and 50% once I make it to 4 left. Those relatively high chances of winning make me wonder if I wasn’t making unnecessarily risky plays during the times that I got busted in 4th or 5th.

Thanks again for your time.

 

[Collin Moshman]

I'm impressed by that level of quantifying stats related to your play! The super-high success rate for jamming in BB over SB limps is awesome. It's also very useful population tendency data as there's nowhere else to get it easily, and the stat is highly actionable. Really great.

In case it helps, if you're playing on a site that has sharkscope tracking, it will give your finish distribution including probability of each finish position.

To answer your question, I wouldn't take those probabilities into account when playing. Your probability of winning should be proportional to the percent of chips you hold regardless of number of players remaining. If you believe a given play is profitable, take it and pass otherwise, without factoring in how you've historically done with a given number of players remaining.

Finish distribution doesn't matter much if you're happy with ROI. If you're not, then looking there for clues can be useful. Also, I believe that the best 30-day profit projected is simply Volume * ROI for what you expect over that period. If you're using anything more complicated in Excel, I don't think you'll improve over that basic equation, but I could be wrong on that depending on what you've got

Your mind for detail and ability with numbers are great and a huge asset for your SNG play. I'd focus it most on discovering population tendencies over breaking down your own performance.

 

[BigFatRat]

Collin,

Thanks for the reply and kind words.

You hit the nail on the head for my 30 day projection calc - that’s exactly what I’m doing.

I’ll keep my head down and keep plugging away for now. I’m sure I’ll have more questions soon. Thanks again for tour time, guidance, and inspiration.

 

[Enplo650]

SNG bankroll

Hello again. Another one question, about bankroll management this time. I have about 1500$ bankroll in pokerstars. Which buy in SNG (single table,mtt sng) I should play???

 

[Katie Dozier]

Hello again. Another one question, about bankroll management this time. I have about 1500$ bankroll in PokerStars. Which buy in SNG (single table,mtt sng) I should play???

Hi Enplo, That’s a nice potential bankroll that will allow you many different options as to the game type you decide on. I’d love to help you narrow down your options but in order to do the best job at that I should have a little more info :

What games/stakes have you played in the past, what session length and frequency works for your schedule and do you have a proven winning track record in any game type already or are you just setting out on this journey?

Once you let me know I’ll try to help you find the best way to invest your bankroll!

 

[Enplo650]

Hi Enplo, That’s a nice potential bankroll that will allow you many different options as to the game type you decide on. I’d love to help you narrow down your options but in order to do the best job at that I should have a little more info :

What games/stakes have you played in the past, what session length and frequency works for your schedule and do you have a proven winning track record in any game type already or are you just setting out on this journey?

Once you let me know I’ll try to help you find the best way to invest your bankroll!

first off all,thanks Katie for your response. i have played 1,5$ &3,5$/9,18,45 man. Also 2,5$/180 and some 3$-5$ ko/9 man and 5$/90 man ko.


I can play every day,4-6 multitable,at least 5-6 hours.


My biggest win,was at 3,5r/180man and 2 times I finished 3d. I only played 3,5r about 30 times. I have about 20-25% roi at 2,5/180 and about the same roi on the others sng/mtt except 5/90ko(-roi). I am very good at 3-5$/ko 9man. But not so good at 3,5$/9 man.


Should I make now the jump to 3,5r and 7$ sngs??or stay here and make bigger bankroll for the next jump??? I have only 1,5 year that I have take serious poker in my life.


Thanks for your time and sorry for my English.

 

[Collin Moshman]

Hey Enplo! I read your reply and I'll take a turn answering your question too

Games to Avoid

Assuming that you're always taking the add-on, and at least sometimes taking the rebuy, then $1500 is smaller than ideal for the $3.50R 180man games. So I wouldn't play these very much unless you're up on the $1500 and want to shot-take sometimes.

I also think it would be a mistake to move up to $7 SNG if you don't yet feel totally comfortable with $3.50.

Games to Play

Your ROI in $2.50 180 is very solid so I would play these.

I'd also play $5 9-man KO and you can even table-select soft $10 9-man KO.

I like the 90man PKO games which you mentioned -- you could definitely play $5 90man which are good/soft games.

These formats/buyins ^^ are ones that you have a good bankroll for with $1500 and sound like you play very well with excellent results. Best of luck!

 

[Manjerica1]

Hello and thanks for all this content about sit n goes: D

I've been reading about the previous forum posts and most of them are about sit n gos turbos or 6 max or 9 max.

Here is the question directed to regular 45's sit on gos at pokerstars.

I started playing a cardschat freeroll a long time ago and did my bankroll playing sit n gos 45 players of 0.25 cents. I'm trying to migrate to 1.00 sites now. I think I had good results playing 0.25 cent tournaments but I don't know where I am going wrong playing 1.00 sit n go. There are quite regulars in this field but they are a very small minority, most players in this tournament are recreational.

Here's some information on my ROI, Early Terminations, and other Sharkscope statistics and some more Pocker Tracker 4 filters I made.

I heard that to have a good base I should have at least 100,000 hands, but I don't have it yet, the filters I made are from the last 300 Sit n gos 1 $ 45's.

http://prnt.sc/qd89m3

https://prnt.sc/qd7tbm

1- What statistics could you tell me to improve?

2- What statistics are not in this filter that I should put?

Best regards,
Manjerica1

 

[Collin Moshman]

You have solid results at both $0.25 and $1 45man, nice work!

While 500-600 games is a good starting sample, it can take many thousands of games to get your true ROI. It’s very possible, for example, that your actual ROI at $0.25 games is less than 45% and your ROI at $1 games is much higher than 19% and the two are close. So I wouldn’t change your strategy based on having a lower ROI so far at the higher level.

To answer your specific questions:

1. What statistics could you tell me to improve?

It’s difficult to say with these being aggregate stats. For example, is your VPIP of 25% good or bad? It’s too loose 9-handed and too tight heads-up. It would be a bit easier to say if you filtered for only 9-handed play. All of the stats look at least reasonable. You have a nice overall flop c-bet %!

2. What statistics are not in this filter that I should put?

Like I said, try filtering for 9-handed play specifically. I would also add in:

PFR (different from Raise First %), as well as RFI by positions – most important RFI SB, RFI Button, RFI Cutoff, and RFI Early Position.

 

[Manjerica1]

Thanks for the answer Collin Moshman

I Will do as you said with this New filters.

Many thanks,
Manjerica1

 

[Joe]

Hi guys! Collin and I have some cool stuff planned with CardsChat that we’re excited to announce soon!

And to get things started, ask us anything about SNGs, or anything else if you’d like

My Proudest SNG Accomplishments:

• Over 100,000 online poker tournaments played, most of them SNGs
• Played 40 or more tables regularly at once
• Having so many great friends in the poker community!

My husband Collin’s SNG Accomplishments:

• Wrote the best-selling book Sit ‘N Go Strategy
• Staked and coached hundreds of players to beat SNGs
• Almost $60,000 in profit and a 28% ROI from 180man SNG alone

We’re mostly playing on US-friendly sites now, but here are our SNG profit graphs on Stars where we’ve played the most. Collin is on 50 different Sharkscope SNG leaderboards! But I’ve played more games than he has

​

OK ask us anything!

Hi to you both, really happy to have you as part of CC!

My first question has nothing to do with SNG's specifically, sorry!

It's to do with statistics on sharkscope, I've been trying to find this out for quite some time now.. Unsuccessfully thus far!

One of the statistics is labelled as PLTB (if I remember correctly), I've never been able to find out or guess what this is, can you help?

Looking at it again now, I could only guess Player Limps The Button, but I don't think that's right, haha.

If you can answer this you will be solving something that has bugged me for quite some time!

Ok, so I don't feel entirely selfish- I was once told to consider a SNG similar to a FT where everyone starts with the same sized stack. Would you agree with this advice? Is there anything you would adjust or add if you concur? Where does the analogy fall down if you don't agree?

Kind Regards

 

[Collin Moshman]

Good question! I've never heard that abbreviation before. Could you take a screenshot of where you're seeing it in Sharkscope? I would say that Player Limps the Button is probably not what it stands for. The reason is that SS has data relating to cashes and winrates but not on play statistics like limping and raising. Again a screenshot would be great if that's possible!

I like that SNG/MTT analogy. The main difference is that ICM and risk aversion will apply more to the MTT since there are pay jumps with every single bustout. While in the SNG, the first 5 players to bust (assuming 50/30/20 9-man) will all win $0 before players start finishing ITM.

The final table of a 180man SNG is similar to an MTT final table, and the final 4 or 5 of a 9-man SNG is similar to short-handed play at an MTT final table.

Hope that helps, thanks for posting Tracid!

 

[Joe]

Good question! I've never heard that abbreviation before. Could you take a screenshot of where you're seeing it in Sharkscope? I would say that Player Limps the Button is probably not what it stands for. The reason is that SS has data relating to cashes and winrates but not on play statistics like limping and raising. Again a screenshot would be great if that's possible!

I like that SNG/MTT analogy. The main difference is that ICM and risk aversion will apply more to the MTT since there are pay jumps with every single bustout. While in the SNG, the first 5 players to bust (assuming 50/30/20 9-man) will all win $0 before players start finishing ITM.

The final table of a 180man SNG is similar to an MTT final table, and the final 4 or 5 of a 9-man SNG is similar to short-handed play at an MTT final table.

Hope that helps, thanks for posting Tracid!

Hey Collin, thanks very much for the reply & hope you guys have had a great Christmas!

I'm stuck without a computer at the moment and have been struggling getting screenshots up via this annoying smartphone but try nonetheless!

I was slightly wrong, it's PTLB, not PLTB, haha..

https://paste.pics/15c7ada380d895453b723f26bdde6cc4

Not sure why the various sites I'm trying to use to get links for screenshots are providing Https:// lol.. It's never easy!

If it's any help, my PTLB reads 23,573...

Resetting password at an image site I used to use..

Ty & all the best!

 

[Collin Moshman]

The link to screenshot isn't showing up but from Googling I think these are leaderboard points of some type. If I learn more, I'll let you know!

 

[Joe]

The link to screenshot isn't showing up but from Googling I think these are leaderboard points of some type. If I learn more, I'll let you know!

Oh, interesting!

Yeah, Google didn't help me much on this occasion.. I did try but couldn't find anything relevant at the time..

Thanks!

 

[Warrior1961]

It really seems wonderful and incredible, since I mostly play sit and go and a few MTTs, count on you Collin and Katie, who are just references of the specialties I play. I will be aware of all your publications. Thank you very much for being. Best regards from Buenos Aires.

 

[Worak]

Subbed for study.

 

[Collin Moshman]

Thanks Warrior, I hope you're having a great day in Buenos Aires! I would love to visit there one day, I've heard it's an incredible city.

Thanks Worak!

 

[xy23]

Collin, what are your thoughts on Hyper heads up SNG’s? Do you think it’s better for someone building their roll to master heads up sng play, and then proceed to 6max and more?

Also, for someone building their bankroll, should the player still have 100x the buy in for Hyper heads up sngs or should they have much more due to it being so ‘variancy’?

I recall reading that the ROI for players great at hyper heads up sngs is usually around 20%. So I assume your bankroll should be more than your standard 100x?

 

[Katie Dozier]

It really seems wonderful and incredible, since I mostly play sit and go and a few MTTs, count on you Collin and Katie, who are just references of the specialties I play. I will be aware of all your publications. Thank you very much for being. Best regards from Buenos Aires.

Aw thank you, Warrior! Wishing you the best of luck at the tables!

 

[Collin Moshman]

Collin, what are your thoughts on Hyper heads up SNG’s? Do you think it’s better for someone building their roll to master heads up sng play, and then proceed to 6max and more?

Also, for someone building their bankroll, should the player still have 100x the buy in for Hyper heads up sngs or should they have much more due to it being so ‘variancy’?

I recall reading that the ROI for players great at hyper heads up sngs is usually around 20%. So I assume your bankroll should be more than your standard 100x?

I like HU hyper SNGS, but generally think it's best to start with 9-man or 6-max SNG and then progress to heads-up. The reason for this is because heads-up is a very specialist format. I like building up good, general poker fundamentals before moving on to ones that require big adjustments, so for example starting off with normal tournaments before focusing on one like double-or-nothing.

100 buy-ins is pretty good for a winning player, particularly if you're willing to drop down and build back up a little if you're having a bad downswing.

And a 20% ROI will almost definitely be unattainable. With the rake and a fast structure, I believe that the top players might be around a 5% ROI and even that would be high.

Good questions here and if you have any Qs on heads-up hyper strategy just let us know

 

[Minikiwi9]

SNG content

Hey awesome Thread, I have been working on my SNG study, and I am also rather new to Cards chat, is there more SNG content on this site somewhere from you two that I am missing? Super glad to have found this!!

Great questions Hoboken.

1. Glad you asked, Katie and I are working on a course right now for CardsChat that will have a lot of SNG content The single biggest thing to work on right now is GTO ranges in software like Holdem Resources and ICMizer. For the early game, you can use other resources too (e.g. for MTT and cash game) since decisions tend to be very similar between the formats when there's little ICM.

2. They're eager to study. If you suggest they start marking difficult hands in tracking software, they start doing it all the time to learn and improve.

 

[Collin Moshman]

Thanks Minikiwi!

We have a course coming out soon with lots of SNG content for CardsChat

In the meanwhile, besides our posts, check out our videos like

on the CardsChat YouTube channel. If you have any other questions please feel free to post again!

 

[Rodolfo888]

every day learning on this forum I am already ahead of my old game









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[Katie Dozier]

every day learning on this forum I am already ahead of my old game

That’s awesome, Rodolfo!