Ask a recreational player anything about micro-stakes mtts

[ph_il]

What to expect from this thread?

-All replies will be based on how I approach micro-stakes mtts and what I've done to find a personal level of success at these stakes.

-While I encourage discussions, it's purely based on my own strategies. If you agree or disagree with twhat I say/do, that's fine. I will keep an open mind with everyone's replies and I hope you do as well. That's how we all learn.

Why did I create this thread and not just reply to questions from other members?

-Part of it is a lack of confidence in what I want to say in other threads. While I'd never purposely try to give bad information, I'm not sure if how I might play in certain situations is always the best response. Plus, I think there are many other qualified members who can answer much better than I can.

-I also created this thread as a way to be more active in the forum.

Why should we follow your advice?

-You shouldn't if you don't want to or if you think how I play does not suit your style.

-I'm not anything special, i'm not a professional player, or a coach, or even that good player of a player compared to many members on here. Still, I feel like I've had a decent level of personal success in the micro-stakes mtts as a casual, recreational player that has a very laid back approach to the game and I would like to share that.

-I'm not trying to teach or tell anyone what they should/shouldn't do, but if something I say can help another member improve or have something 'click' for them with micro-stakes mtts, that's awesome.

Why are you qualified to talk about micro-stakes mtts? What games do you play?

-This is the game I've been playing for many years across many poker sites. Like many players, I struggled with micro-stakes mtts until I figured out what works for me. A lot of things many players struggle with in these stakes, I've been through.

-While I have played many different structures, I prefer and succeed best in small field mtts with short late registration for the following reasons:

• the games are much faster
• there is much less variance
• it's easier to run deep in these games
• on the flip side, prize structures and top payouts are much smaller

-According to my graph and stats on my current site, I do best in re-entry mtts, am break-even in re-buys, and am terrible at pko mtts.

Speaking of graphs, can we see yours?

-Sure. Here is my sharkscope for betonline, the site I currently play on.

-My stats are reset and that's because the results prior are not a representation of the player I am now. I was still learning and fixing a lot of things in my game to get where I am now and I want my graph to show that. I look at my previous results as an expensive learning experience.

-While I'm still down (-$160) on betonline, I'm up overall from other sites. I don't think it's necessary to share my success from those sites as I only play on betonline now.

Is there anything else to add?

-I late register in 99% of mtts I play, often between 15-25 big blinds, but I'll buy-in as low as 5 big blinds.

-I don't run huds or take detailed notes on opponents. I use a simple color key.

-I do not take the game seriously, it's all in good fun for me which is I stick with micro-stakes.

----
That's it. I'll also be playing mtts whenever I can and, hopefully, will show solid results. While my current graph and stats do back up what I say and how I play, I think it's important to provide actual proof of what I do and say actually works.

Finally, I cannot promise anyone anything on here. What I do and how I play might work for someone else, but I believe poker is a lot of trial and error until you figure what works best for you. While I follow a lot of basic fundamentals with micro-stakes mtts, forging my own style and approach is what has given me the best results. There is no one-size-fits-all with poker.

 

[marvinsytan]

keep crushing

 

[ph_il]

keep crushing

Thanks. I hope to do just that.

 

[ph_il]

Too late to edit my original post but I want to mention that I will answer questions based on strategy, specific hands, specific situations, mental game, tilt, bankroll management, etc.

 

[foran]

the goal is to make fewer mistakes every day.

 

[venycyos]

I'll follow this topic, I'm sure I'll get some good insights from here.

 

[ph_il]

the goal is to make fewer mistakes every day.

That is definitely one of the goals. More importantly, the goal should be to learn from and improve from any mistakes. We can't know every mistake we make but, as we progress, we can start to understand which mistakes are more common, how they affect our progress (deep runs, final tables, wins, and profits) negatively, and how we can address those mistakes for the better.

A simple example is maybe a player limp/calls preflop raises too lightly. For some players, this might work well for them because their post flop game is strong. But for players who are not as good post flop, while still playing very loose/passively preflop, then it's very unlikely to work out for them in the long run. By tightening up their limp/calling range and/or even increasing their raising/3betting range preflop, results could shift more in their favor. Of course, there are a lot of things to consider like game type, structure, effective stacks, position, etc but I'm looking at how a player might begin to adjust to address an error in their game.

Also, with goals, we all have our own personal goals with micro-stakes mtts and how you play/what you do should reflect those goals to allow you the best way to achieve that.

For example, if a player's goal is start with playing .25 mtts with a $25 starting bankroll and wants to earn $250 to play the $2.50 mtts, then their goal (imo) should be to focus on a strategy that allows to run deep and make top 3 in as many mtts as they can. This is because payouts are very top heavy and a player only focusing on making small cashes is very unlikely to build up the bankroll they would like, or it would take them a very, very long time assuming they're profiting in the long term. While their is nothing wrong with min-cashing and it does have it's place in mtts (I'll address this more if it comes up), if the goal is to move up in stakes, then your strategy and approach should reflect that. You might have to learn how to accept less frequent min-cashes in attempts to make a few more deep runs to increase your chances.

At the same time, the player might adjust their game selection and play games they have more of an edge in. If a player knows or doesn't think they have an edge in large field (750+), pko mtts with 4 hours of late registration, then they should avoid playing those games. If they think they have more of an edge in freezeout mtts with only 30 minutes of late registration, but the field size is only 200 players, then they should play these games more often. It's all about setting yourself up to succeed and taking advantages of your strengths as a player. This is why I play sites like betonline instead of ACR, field sizes are much smaller and games are much shorter. These are the games I do much better in.

 

[ph_il]

I'll follow this topic, I'm sure I'll get some good insights from here.

Great, I hope you do.

If you have any questions or anything you want to get my thoughts on or discuss, please ask/mention it in the thread.

 

[CDNMAN 42]

My Losing Stats

What to expect from this thread?

-All replies will be based on how I approach micro-stakes mtts and what I've done to find a personal level of success at these stakes.

-While I encourage discussions, it's purely based on my own strategies. If you agree or disagree with twhat I say/do, that's fine. I will keep an open mind with everyone's replies and I hope you do as well. That's how we all learn.

Why did I create this thread and not just reply to questions from other members?

-Part of it is a lack of confidence in what I want to say in other threads. While I'd never purposely try to give bad information, I'm not sure if how I might play in certain situations is always the best response. Plus, I think there are many other qualified members who can answer much better than I can.

-I also created this thread as a way to be more active in the forum.

Why should we follow your advice?

-You shouldn't if you don't want to or if you think how I play does not suit your style.

-I'm not anything special, i'm not a professional player, or a coach, or even that good player of a player compared to many members on here. Still, I feel like I've had a decent level of personal success in the micro-stakes mtts as a casual, recreational player that has a very laid back approach to the game and I would like to share that.

-I'm not trying to teach or tell anyone what they should/shouldn't do, but if something I say can help another member improve or have something 'click' for them with micro-stakes mtts, that's awesome.

Why are you qualified to talk about micro-stakes mtts? What games do you play?

-This is the game I've been playing for many years across many poker sites. Like many players, I struggled with micro-stakes mtts until I figured out what works for me. A lot of things many players struggle with in these stakes, I've been through.

-While I have played many different structures, I prefer and succeed best in small field mtts with short late registration for the following reasons:

• the games are much faster
• there is much less variance
• it's easier to run deep in these games
• on the flip side, prize structures and top payouts are much smaller

-According to my graph and stats on my current site, I do best in re-entry mtts, am break-even in re-buys, and am terrible at pko mtts.

Speaking of graphs, can we see yours?

-Sure. Here is my sharkscope for betonline, the site I currently play on.

-My stats are reset and that's because the results prior are not a representation of the player I am now. I was still learning and fixing a lot of things in my game to get where I am now and I want my graph to show that. I look at my previous results as an expensive learning experience.

-While I'm still down (-$160) on betonline, I'm up overall from other sites. I don't think it's necessary to share my success from those sites as I only play on betonline now.

Is there anything else to add?

-I late register in 99% of mtts I play, often between 15-25 big blinds, but I'll buy-in as low as 5 big blinds.

-I don't run huds or take detailed notes on opponents. I use a simple color key.

-I do not take the game seriously, it's all in good fun for me which is I stick with micro-stakes.

----
That's it. I'll also be playing mtts whenever I can and, hopefully, will show solid results. While my current graph and stats do back up what I say and how I play, I think it's important to provide actual proof of what I do and say actually works.

Finally, I cannot promise anyone anything on here. What I do and how I play might work for someone else, but I believe poker is a lot of trial and error until you figure what works best for you. While I follow a lot of basic fundamentals with micro-stakes mtts, forging my own style and approach is what has given me the best results. There is no one-size-fits-all with poker.

I have also been playing almost exclusively MTT with 45 or less players on poker stars. I have found recently that getting ITM is becoming very difficult. I am not sure why. It has been suggested that at times Poker Stars RNG is somewhat negatively biased to players with small bankrolls. I am beginning to believe this. Up until about three months ago I was doing pretty good at these tourneys, averaging ITM approximately 20-25% of the time then just like someone turned a switch and winning or even getting ITM has become next to impossible.
In the last 50 of these tourneys I have managed ITM 8% and when I have been knocked out 22% of the times have been when I am holding Premium Hands. My bankroll on PS has decreased from $68 to $1.50 over this time. So I tried a little experiment in the last of these I played , I only played or Put money in the pot when my hands were 10 10+, or AQs +, guess what I came in 4th and yes I got knocked out holding JJ.. I do think PS has algorithms designed to keep low $$ bankroll participants at their low levels...just my opinion

 

[LetterRip]

Given your late buy-in strategy - have you focused predominantly on mastering ICM and bubble play? Are you mostly playing a generic push/fold strategy? How short a stack will you do non-All In raises and fold to a shove?

What resources have you found most helpful?

 

[ph_il]

I have also been playing almost exclusively MTT with 45 or less players on Poker Stars. I have found recently that getting ITM is becoming very difficult.
...If these games have limited player entrants, then they have a fixed number of payouts which could potentially make cashing in them a bit more difficult if you're unable to get past the bubble consistently.

I am not sure why. It has been suggested that at times Poker Stars RNG is somewhat negatively biased to players with small bankrolls. I am beginning to believe this. Up until about three months ago I was doing pretty good at these tourneys, averaging ITM approximately 20-25% of the time then just like someone turned a switch and winning or even getting ITM has become next to impossible.
...I disagree with any sites RNG attacking small stakes player as that makes absolutely no sense and the sites would not gain any benefit from doing so. I will leave it at that as this is not meant to be a thread to discuss any 'rigging' from poker sites, no matter how much you might believe it is happening. There is already a thread for that.

Without any examples or knowing how you play, I cannot address why you might be having difficulty cashing in or doing as well as you were before. We all go through slumps with mtts and downswings are a part of the game. It's also possible you're over exaggerating you results, but only you can know that.

In the last 50 of these tourneys I have managed ITM 8% and when I have been knocked out 22% of the times have been when I am holding Premium Hands.
...I don't know 'premium hands' are you and this situation you were in. KK is a premium hand, but if you're against AA, you're going to lose 80% of the time. Doesn't make either hand less 'premium'.

A concerning factor is, if what you're saying is all correct, the other 78% of the 46 mtts you didn't cash in, you busted with a less than 'premium' hand. Again, I don't know what hands you played but just look at this, it sounds like you're getting your money in behind way more often than not. That would make a lot of sense if you're not having better results.

My bankroll on PS has decreased from $68 to $1.50 over this time. So I tried a little experiment in the last of these I played , I only played or Put money in the pot when my hands were 10 10+, or AQs +, guess what I came in 4th and yes I got knocked out holding JJ.. I do think PS has algorithms designed to keep low $$ bankroll participants at their low levels...just my opinion
...So you did well when you played hands that put you an equity advantage against your opponent majority of the time. Congrats, that's what you should be doing and look your results, you took 4th.

Looking at my reply above, if you (assumingly) are getting it in behind 78% of the time and now you're getting it in ahead over 78% of the time (as an extreme example), then obviously you're going to have better results. It's not rocket surgery.

Above.

 

[ph_il]

Gi...ven your late buy-in strategy - have you focused predominantly on mastering ICM and bubble play?
...I wouldn't say I've mastered anything, to be honest.

Looking at bubble play, what I choose to do will really depend on a number of factors and I can't give a definitive answer for all situations. So, I think it's best to look at from a very standard approach. While I'm never afraid to bubble in an mtt, I will take unnecessary risks to punt off a guaranteed cash.

So sure, I'll jam with JJ for 12 big binds on bubble because there is more value going for the bigger stack here than there is to just min-cash. At the same time, if I have 30 big blinds, I might opt to just min-raise, 3bet, or, in some situations, just flat call with JJ on the bubble because it's not necessary to punt off a healthy stack in this spot. I still have a decent chance to cash much deeper without the risk. Overall, I have 3 results:

• I bust out and don't cash
• I double up and have a much better chance of running deep
• I potentially win a large pot or lose a small pot, but guarantee a cash

In this situation, if I run into QQ+, then I'm pretty much screwed and I'm busting out 80% of the time. My ultimate goal is to run deep and win tournaments, but the path I choose to take will depend on what I think will be the best approach.

Another way I look at the bubble and cashing is:

• min-cashing is to cusion the bankroll
• deep runs is for profiting

Taking a look at my last ~55 mtts, I'm on what I would consider a downswing as I'm down $22. However, I have very high 40% itm money finish which helped cushion my losses by a decent amount. Total buy-in is ~$63.00, total cash is ~$41.00, it could have been much worse.

As far as ICM goes, I really don't think about it until I get to the final table bubble and the final table. I'm sure there are situations before this where it might apply but I don't worry about that. And, to be fully honest, I don't know a lot about ICM. I get the general idea of it, but I'm not studying it religiously. I just have a very basic approach when I make final tables. I want to:

• win the mtt
• make top 3
• finish at my starting position or better
• make money jump
• out last my opponents

And a lot what I do will really depend on my opponents and how they play. There have been times that I've entered final tables with a very short stack (< 8 big blinds) in 8/8 and, while I think many players would take big risk to try and build up their stack, I might decide to tighten up a lot and just run my short stack as long as possible instead of taking the big risks.

Is this the best strategy? Probably not. I don't know. My thinking is: I'm already 8/8 and I'm getting paid the same amount if I risk it now and bust out or if I go through 10 orbits (for example) and bust out an hour later. In that time, I might be able to take a few money jumps and make a little more profit when players bust each other out. There have been times I started 8/8 with a severe short stack only to finish in top 3 and even win a couple mtts in the process by taking this approach.

Are you mostly playing a generic push/fold strategy? How short a stack will you do non-All In raises and fold to a shove?
...I wouldn't say 'generic' but, yes, there are situations where I'll take a push/fold approach. Other situations, I might limp, min-raise, or 3bet with the intentions of calling off a shove or shoving post flop

It all depends on situation but, usually, I know I'll to play more spots aggressively to try and build a pot to at least give myself a chance to cash. If i late register with 20 big blinds, but there are still 120 players to get through before the money, then I'm going to take more risks to try and build a bigger stack to get there. And there have been games where I registered last minute for 8 big blinds, 11 players remain, 9 players make the money, final table is 8/8, and there are 4 players with < 3 bb stacks and it's like "hmm. i can just play uber tight and pretty much guarantee a final table finish here."

As far as how short of a stack I would not open shove with or raise/fold with will, again, depend on situation. Ultimately, I think it would depend on if the play will benefit me in anyway.

For example, lets say I have 3 bbs on the button and it's folded to me. Blinds have 30 bbs. Lets also say were on a money jump ladder and the next pay jump guarantees me an extra 1.25 buy-ins. That's pretty beneficial for me.

Obviously, if I have KK+, Ak, etc hands I'm happy to get it in and go for the double. But if I have a hand like K9s, then I can go for a standard open of 2.1x big blinds. If they fold, I pick up the pot. If they jam, I can try and wait out the ladder bubble to pass before I decide to call. If it it pops, then I'm happy to call. If it hasn't and I'm not on player on the bubble, I might decide call or fold. I think K9s might just be too strong of a hand to fold for 1 more big blind, so the money is pretty much guaranteed to get in, it's just a matter of when it happens. At least my run clock, I can increase my chances of making a bit more profit.

Thankfully, this situation doesn't happen to often and I'll only do in games I think are worth doing it. So, I might do it in a .10 mtt but, in a $1 mtt, it might be worth going for that extra 1.25 buy-ins because it adds up more in the long run. if I do this in 10 mtts, that's and extra $12.50 in profits, that's an extra 25 buy-ins at .50 mtts, which is an extra 25 chances to run deep and win an mtt. If 1st place makes $100, then I've increased my banrkroll by a significant amount just by simply going for that extra bit of value.

Ultimately, it comes down to what can i accomplish in a given situation. With 3 big blinds, odds of me winning an mtt are very slim. Not impossible, but extremely slim. So, in the mean time, I might switch my goals to make as much value as I can. And if there is a situation where is nothing beneficial for doing, no money ladder jump, still very slim chance to win the mtt, then I'm happy to take more risk. In my example above, I didn't risk jamming 3 bbs with K9s on a money ladder bubble but, in another situation with no money ladder, I might jam K9s from the big blind for 12 bbs facing 4 limpers because it's a much more beneficial play.

What resources have you found most helpful?
...Watching a lot of twitch highlights on youtube from mtt players like Lex Veldhuis, Fintan, and Spraggy. While they play much higher stakes, a lot of things they say and do can be applied to micro-stakes mtts. I also learn a lot better by watching and listening (audio-visual) to a player than I am reading a book or listening to a strategy podcast.

If I see something done and the reasons are explained why they're doing, I'm more likely to imply it to my own game if it makes sense to me. More s than if someone was to provide hours of information, show graphs, stats, charts, etc for the same situation.

Above.

 

[ph_il]

You can see my results on my sharkscope.

I took 2nd/145 players in a $1.05 turbo mtt for $30.81 in profit. I late registered for 20 BBs with ~40 minutes of late registration remaining.

So, pretty happy with the results, especially since I had been on somewhat of a downswing and hadn't had any big mtt cashes in while. I am pretty much break-even for the last 50 games. It's not ideal and I'd rather be up $30, but it's a lot better than still being down. On the plus side, I had withdrawn most of my bankroll while going through my downswing and left $5 in to try and make something happen with it. The plan was, if I busted my bankroll, I'd take a short break from poker. Through some ups and downs, but taking a lot of advantage of small cashes and money jumps, I build it up to $9 prior to this game, and now, I have a $40 bankroll to play with.

Unfortunately, my screen recording software isn't working properly, nor can I take screenshots. I was hoping to post some hands I played and discuss them but I'm not sure what to do now. I don't think any hand converters work for betonline. It's pretty lame, but I may have to write everything out. If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know.

Here is the final hand of the tournament. Please let me know if you like this format for posting. H = Hero, V = Villain

-H: 30.28 bbs [BB]
-V: 84.48 bbs [BTN]
-V: Opens to 3.24 bbs
-H: calls

• Flop: 7d - 10c - Ks

-H: checks.
-V: bets pot [6.72 bbs]
-H: calls.

I don't I need to jam here and risk villain folding a lot of hands they could have missed with. I don't think 77 or 1010 is playing this aggressively against a short stack either. So, they could have Ax, some type of straight draw, maybe a mid pair like 66, or just complete air. I do well against a lot of hands and I want them to bet again on the turn before I get my stack in. With top pair, I'm not going nowhere.

• Turn: 7d - 10c - Ks -7c

-H: checks-V: bets pot [20.16 bbs]
-H: jams for another .16 bbs more

7c doesn't improve any draws and puts an extra out there. It's not an ideal turn as there could be some 7's in villains opening range like 67, 78, and A7. But, again, I question if villain is playing a strong hand this aggressively against a short stack. What hand am I calling with here that is going to pay off villain for a pot size bet? Not a lot, so I can't see hands like 710, K7, 1010, K10, or A7 making a play like this. In this spot I think could be behind a better king or aces, and I'm ahead of a lot of other hands.
-V: shows AcQd

• River: 7d - 10c - Ks -7c - Jh

Unfortunate river, but that's how it goes sometimes. My read on the situation was (for the most part) spot on and I got my money in a way ahead. Everything was set up nicely for me and I ended up losing. It is what it is and I'm not upset against losing to someone that had 16% equity going to the river.

My biggest self rule in all of micro-stakes mtts, and I think the one thing that has helped me improve my game (especially my mental game) is to never exit an mtt regretting any decisions. What I mean by this is, no matter what the outcome is, I am happy with all of my decisions I've made. It's not just for deep runs, it's for every game I play from starting point to my end point, was I happy with every decision I made? If not, I figure why and what I can do improve. And I don't focus on results. Results don't matter as much as decisions do because I can't control results. I can control my decisions made, whether they're correct or not, and I can learn from them.

I'm not sure how things would have played out if I had won the hand. I don't think villain was that strong of a player, to be honest, and I think I would've had the advantage with stacks being even. It just wasn't my game to win, but I also got extremely lucky to make it this far as I was milking a medium [15-20 bbs] stack most of the tournament. Given how things were going for me, I focused on taking money jumps until I got lucky and picked up a huge pot to set up a final table run. It's pretty crazy.

I made FT 4th/8 and actually dropped to 4th/5 with only 12 big blinds at one point. I simply adjusted my strategy based how others were playing, and maybe, in some spots, I over adjusted in spots and folded hands I probably should have been shoving, but it worked out for me. It's not a win, but I finished a lot better than I thought I would have.

I will post more hands that I think are worth giving my thought process on and discussing.

 

[Navin Sarabjeet]

Nice thread.
I am also working on building a better bankroll on a new site.

So far it has its ups and downs

I was on pokerstars prior and was working on my own bankroll challenge going from $0 - $10.000

But before i could even reach half of that pokerstars closed down on my country and i was forced to cash out the $3.565 that i had accumulated from $0,-
And to think that it all started with a freeroll at CC

So right now i am trying to run it up on ACR and 888

I also play the smaller fields, but i choose mostly the mixed games.
So if you put in the volume it will bear fruit.

I also like the NLHE games so I will follow this thread to learn something new

Good luck on the felt

 

[ph_il]

Good luck on the felt

Thanks, same to you.

 

[LetterRip]

Thanks for the reply - you can add [XquoteX] and [X/quoteX] (remove Xs) to break up a single quote into multiple quote blocks, so that your reply is outside of each quote.

So you end up with,

Given your late buy-in strategy - have you focused predominantly on mastering ICM and bubble play?

I wouldn't say I've mastered anything, to be honest.

instead of

Given your late buy-in strategy - have you focused predominantly on mastering ICM and bubble play?
I wouldn't say I've mastered anything, to be honest.

 

[ph_il]

Thanks for the reply - you can add [XquoteX] and [X/quoteX] (remove Xs) to break up a single quote into multiple quote blocks, so that your reply is outside of each quote.

So you end up with,


I wouldn't say I've mastered anything, to be honest.

instead of

Thanks for that information.