Am I playing wrong in MTT's

KerouacsDog

KerouacsDog

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A serious post from me for once.
I'm normally a stt player, micro stakes(10 cents to $5 etc), with the occaisional mtt thrown in.I havent got much money for poker, but love the game. In the stt's, I do ok. I'm most of the time a TAG player, with the odd bluff thrown in. As Im so used to stt's, I figure I know how to play them, when to bluff(sometimes),when to be agressive, when to slowplay etc, cause I know where the finishing line is, and how to get there. For me, my primary object in a stt is to get into a payout, and then aim for 1st, but it doesnt always happen like that. I always try not to be all-in, unless I'm sure I have the nuts, as I hate to be outdrawn(dont we all), and Im immensely aware this can happen with each hand that isnt the nuts.
So, onto mtt's: I hardly ever get bad-beat in a mtt, and thats my problem. I get outplayed, or Im behind at the flop without knowing it, etc, but Im just not committing myself all-in when there's a chance of being bad beat. Should I be? Should I start risking it more for a chance of a better payout. I frequently(I believe, anyway) make the small cash at mtt's but rarely get a top 5 finish for a bigger payout. Do you guys that make good cashes in mtt's put your whole tournament on the line for a single hand? What do you do?
Again, with mtt's I like to get to the money first then aim higher. Is my strategy all wrong? Should I play more stt's where I have a better chance of cashing, then use that money to play more mtt's and risk it a bit more?
Thanks in advance.
KD
 
KingOfAnglia

KingOfAnglia

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I find I have the same problem, do well in STTs and find the MTTs more tricky, some general things I found is that unlike STTs the strategy of playing to get into the money and then aiming higher isnt the best for MTTs where the bubble is far less important due to a MTT having many bubbles seperating the decent cashes from just getting a little more than the buy in,( as if you get a small cash for the time you invest its better in my view to play a STT and get third which is alot easier and less time consuming than a low pay out on a MTT).A top place finish is what you want rather than just breaking into the cashing spots short stacked. You have to play each hand/situation the best you can regardless of the stage of the tourney, also with the bigger fields cashing will be less regular and you will have to put your stack on the line at some point to make it to the decent pay outs, as well making sure you get paid the most you can on your good hands to keep the stack building, also in the latter stages where the running antes kick in this is also important as there is so much to win in the pots and is a stage where you can take advantage of those players you see to be clinging on just to make the money this means you may cash less, but you will cash bigger when you do. I am in no way a great MTT player but found I did do better when I stoped thinking of just trying to get into the money (as I do in STTs) and playing a game based on good hands/situations and taking a risk earlier( not suggesting silly moves, but if you think you have the best hand then going with it and if I get outdrawn so be it) to either keep me in good shape in the tourney rather than getting to that nail biting situation where you hoping the other short stacks bust before you so you can get into the money.
 
KerouacsDog

KerouacsDog

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Thanks mate, for the reply. You summed it up well, I do, nearly all the time, get to that nail-biting bit near the end, where Im hoping the other small-stacks bust out before I do. Guess I have to start risking it more, when I feel I'm ahead by a bit. Case in point last night in the ps freeroll, I limped in with 65os, the flop came 432 rainbow, so I had the nuts at that point, but still felt I could be beat. One guy was betting at me, but rather than raising him, I called him to see the turn card to see whether I could be beat(fullhouse etc). It was safe for me so that was ok.
Footnote: I'm the same, I'm a long way from being a good mtt player, and just want to improve at them for the bigger payouts.
 
JeeDub84

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MTT's are about patience, survival and taking advantage of chip building situations. There are several times where you may need to put yourself at risk of elimination to progress that much farther in the tourny, but you want to minimize these situations as much as possible. Stay patient during the tourny and pay attention so that you may realize when to take command at the table or sit back and wait.
 
beardyian

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Position it really important as is of course patience.
The key for me in recent Mtts is the right hand played at the right time, the right way.

Im sure you know all what is preached inside out, but its always another thing entirely actually playing it :).

You do need to bully the short stacks to pick up cheap chips, and be aggressive when your sure you have the best hand.

How often do you re-raise or check raise? that was the turning point for me i think - that shows real aggression.

The hand with your 65 & 432 flop - yes you had the nuts and even better someone betting into you, this is a great place to re-raise.
Dont wait for the turn as that could bring a card to beat you.

Pressure the opponent and if he thinks he has something he will pay, otherwise, he is folding and you pick up the pot without seeing another card.

:)
 
B

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KD i have done preety good in MTT's over the past year...i think that it is mostly about surviving and building your stack until you gget into the money... once you get there it is easier to play a little more loosley and try to go for first. The one thing i have to stay away from is loosing that one big hand... or getting burnt on a bad beat. Once you are into the tournament further there are less donks and more people on your level of poker which will limit the amount of bad beats you take. Its alot eaisier to beat people when you dont have to worry about them going all in with 37 suitedand getting lucky on the flop.
 
Welly

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One of the worst mistakes made in MTTs (and most common) is hanging on for the money.

In ROI terms there is no long-term value in just limping over the money line in MTTs, whereas in many STT payment structures there is some ROI value in doing this.

This doesnt mean being aggressive for aggression sake in MTTs, but it does mean not being too conservative and making a few moves if good opportunities present themselves. In general just when others are getting tighter and starting to think about reaching the money line, it is good to exploit this and get a little more aggressive. It can take a long time to adopt this mentaility with the complete self-believe that you are not playing too loose. ie If you play for a few hours and go out around the bubble with a slightly over-aggressive move it is difficult for many people to think anything apart from the fact that they need to get tighter in the future.

Speaking personally very few of my large field wins have come when I have had below average chips at the money line. But, once again, this doesnt mean taking completely blind risks in a desperation to get in this position. To a certain degree there is always an element of acceping ones fate, and if you run card dead you will need to do your best with your lot.

The best MTTs players need a strange mix of patience and fearless aggression, and this mix virtually never occurs in anyone playing above their bankroll, so bare that in mind. The money has to mean absolutely nothing to you (and you will need to play a little like this at selected times), but you also need to have the control, patience, and self-motivation to play with this money like it means the world to you.

Good Luck

Welly
 
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Allsopp

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Welly's post is very accurate.

Scared money in MTT's is dead money. You need to be fearless and play very aggressively.

You also need to be very loose in position and play alot of pots. Stealing lots of small pots is essential to be successful in MTT's.

The basic strategy of successful MTT play is to accumalate alot of chips from small pots and not to get involved in big pots that could see you go broke. This means making lots of moves and stabbing at lots of pots when you think your opponent is weak or has missed the flop. Regardless of the way they are playing...
 
bubbasbestbabe

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Biggest tip I can give you is play the MTT like a STT. By this I mean just focus on the table you are at. Don't think about that you are X position out of X. Once you start doing that your play is subtlely affected. If you focus just on the table you are at and play your level of game you will find that you will naturally progress.
 
Z

zzbob

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I don't play in over $10 Mtt's. Mostly $2 to $5. I used to play sng's where I would risk say $5 and If first would win $25. To me that's winning four times as much as i invest. In low buy in MTT's you can risk $2 and win one hundred so you must win far fewer tourney's to make more money. The trick is in winning them. I aim to come in the money at least 10 percent winning occasionally. I do fine winning around $200 a week. I am retired so if I want to win more I play more. I am not greedy and do not have a lot to invest. Some people play Mtt's as I call bluffing stack builders playing a lot of hands and trying to buy pots when the ante's are low. I have tried this and I am no good at it so I play super tight at the start. I play aces kings or ace king only until the blinds start to go up. By then many people will already be out. If lucky I will end super tight stage with more chips than I started with and if lucky with the deal double or triple chips. I then start loosening up in position and as the blinds increase become more aggressive as I start playing more 5 and 6 player hands. As the final table gets near I may tighten up a little to make final table as in low buy ins most of the money is paid to final ten. I get knocked out of many tourneys but the ones I survive I make good on. Just as in a ring game you must be willing to put it all in without remorse and I look at pocket Kings as possible being my last hand in the tourney. I play low buy in Mtt's to protect my loses as in a $5 buy in I can only lose $5. I am not a constant all inner but late in a tourney as soon as I think I have the best hand I will bet all I can to try and make you fold so you will not draw out on me. If you call and suck out there is another tourney starting in 5 minutes on some site where I have money. See you at the tables.
 
KerouacsDog

KerouacsDog

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guys/girls thanks for the excellent advice. too much to reply to, but Ive read it all, and will reread it before I play my next one. I think my main worry is playing for 2 -3 hours in a MTT, and then busting out near the money, and having nothing to show for it. Realise now that as Im a TAG player, when I get 'that' hand Im waiting for, then I have to play it aggresively, and f**k the consequences of my actions. Not to play it like a fool, but to be prepared to take a few more risks. To sum it up, go out like a lion, rather than squeak out like a mouse.
Thanks again.
KD
 
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