The 3 most important SnG tips

[lexian8]

Top 3 tips for SNG newbies:

1. Play within your bankroll.
You can go 5, 10, 20 in a row without cashing, you need to be able to handle those swings, financially and emotionally. Good BRM does this.

2. Make notes on every player.
What hands they play, from what position, do they raise alot, limp, weak, tight, aggressive. It all helps later.

3. Find the game that is right for you and stick to it.
Some people love razz, other NLHE, 6, man, 9 man, 18man, 45man, turbos, non turbos. The choices are mind boggling, stick to the ones you make money at.

I must say your first point is THE most important...my BRM is rather conservative. No fancy poker theories, just good old risk management. If I were to invest money in any of the player's 3 tips, I invest in yours.

 

[pifan]

1.- PATIENCE the key of texas hold'em
2.- NOT TILT
3.- Play tight and try to survive.

The 3 best advices i can give you.

I agree with his first two but 3 should be controlled aggression with an understanding of your position at the table

 

[Poker Orifice]

Usually for most newer players.... most important tip.. PLAY LESS hands!!!
Watch the players on your tables and take note of the guys who are folding, folding, folding and when they raise don't get involved unless you have a big hand. These are often the guys who are playing mult-tables and are winning players.

Don't bluff very often. Alot of newer players bluff way too often in micro limits. If you do attempt a bluff,...pick your spots wisely (this will come intuitively in time) and make sure your bets fit the story you're trying to represent (often you'll see a newbie who will shove the river in early levels or put out a ridiculously big bet on the turn.. and you know if they really had good there's no way they wouldnt' be trying to get some value from it).

READ LOTS of SNG Strategy info.!!! Buy Collin Moshmann's book and get your material from one of the best sources out there. There are also some excellent sng articles out there on the internet.

Oh yah... why do we have to restrict this reply to just 3 tips? That feels like putting it in a box to me.

Most of the tips above are all good advise.

 

[lexian8]

Usually for most newer players.... most important tip.. PLAY LESS HANDS!!!
Watch the players on your tables and take note of the guys who are folding, folding, folding and when they raise don't get involved unless you have a big hand. These are often the guys who are playing mult-tables and are winning players.

Don't bluff very often. Alot of newer players bluff way too often in micro limits. If you do attempt a bluff,...pick your spots wisely (this will come intuitively in time) and make sure your bets fit the story you're trying to represent (often you'll see a newbie who will shove the river in early levels or put out a ridiculously big bet on the turn.. and you know if they really had good there's no way they wouldnt' be trying to get some value from it).

READ LOTS of SNG Strategy info.!!! Buy Collin Moshmann's book and get your material from one of the best sources out there. There are also some excellent sng articles out there on the internet.

Oh yah... why do we have to restrict this reply to just 3 tips? That feels like putting it in a box to me.

Most of the tips above are all good advise.

Hi,

Firstly I restrict this reply to 3 tips is mainly to prevent paralysis from analysis.

My copy of Moshmann's book is on it's way. I also found an old post of yours that you recommend a free ebook comedy of errors and have finsihed reading too.

I have since adjusted my game, playing real tight in early rounds. At first I experienced some success, cashing in more games, however, just not too long ago I ran into a series of really tight games with 7 players left while BBs are 100. I panicked when the cards did not come my way, and stealing attempts are often folded by being re-raised or simply just called down. Now I gave back what I won after adjusting my game. One immediate problem I recongnize is I play out of position too many times with premium hands. I play 2 tables max, may add more when I get better at it. Any advice ? All games I played are micro SnGs, after about 70 games, down to $9.70 from $10.

 

[ph_il]

1. Fold or raise. Very rarely limp in.
2. Tight early, aggressive later.
3. Never be afraid to lose.

 

[Debi]

Hi philthy!

 

[lexian8]

1. Fold or raise. Very rarely limp in.
2. Tight early, aggressive later.
3. Never be afraid to lose.

Ah...I like this 3 !! Will keep them in mind.



Anyway...this is for more experienced players...what kind of win lose ratio should I aim for ?

 

[cardplayer52]

1. tight is right in the beginning
2. watch players see who limp/folds(you'll be shoving on them later) see who calls big raises with junk(you'll bet you good hands vs them)
3. under 12BBs it's all in or fold time.

 

[WiZZiM]

1. super tight in early levels, play mostly premium stuff, even folding AQ, limp in with small pairs and try to set mine.
2. middle stages try and conserve your stack or build on it slightly.
3. Abuse the weaker players and look for good spots to pick up blinds, try and work out whos likely to call and whos likely to fold, calling ranges etc, then once in money play to win


watch the blind to stack ratios, once antes kick in you could be playing a whole new blind structure..
EXAMPLE- 5 ppl left blinds are 150 300 with 25 ante, so the blinds are essentially around 200 400 due to the ante increase

if for example your in sb and the bb has less than 10 bb, its a push with anytwo cards, unexploitable play and +ev in the long run

then just practice a heap and learn each time, its hard to play perfect sng poker, review your HH and work out where you can improove

 

[WiZZiM]

Never go all in pre-flop.

i would disagree strongly with this, in small limit sng it will be extremely positive ev to shove AA KK QQ AK suited preflop, as your likely to get calls from smaller pairs or ace rags, king 10 type hands. putting you as 3 to 1 favourite...

say you have a raise from middle position and one caller, you pick up KK, you only have like 50 bb in early levels, if you reraise and the dreaded ace falls on the flop you may have to fold and possible be bluffed off your hand. i would say, small stake sng its a push with KK your likely to get really loose calls from bad players higher stakes obv not, but i think were talking micro to small SNG here...

 

[WiZZiM]

i don't completely agree with playing tight early. i would say play a lot of cheap flops with connected hands that can develop into mosters, and are easy to get away from post flop to aggressive bets. as you get to the bubble, abuse the blinds and take advantage of position.

i stongly disagree with this statement also, early sng levels you simply cant win enough to make these connector type hands plus EV, they will end up costing you more money than its worth, the main aim is to conserve your stack for later rounds when the blinds go up so that you have enough chips for fold equity..

short term yeah you may have success but over the long run, you will lose money playing sit and gos this way...

 

[Debi]

1. super tight in early levels, play mostly premium stuff, even folding AQ, limp in with small pairs and try to set mine.
2. middle stages try and conserve your stack or build on it slightly.
3. Abuse the weaker players and look for good spots to pick up blinds, try and work out whos likely to call and whos likely to fold, calling ranges etc, then once in money play to win


watch the blind to stack ratios, once antes kick in you could be playing a whole new blind structure..
EXAMPLE- 5 ppl left blinds are 150 300 with 25 ante, so the blinds are essentially around 200 400 due to the ante increase

if for example your in sb and the bb has less than 10 bb, its a push with anytwo cards, unexploitable play and +ev in the long run

then just practice a heap and learn each time, its hard to play perfect sng poker, review your HH and work out where you can improove

This is all great advice - obviously from somebody who has studied sng's!

Feel free to join in our little group of sng players whenever you want:

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/learning-poker-57/

Also there is this if you haven't seen it yet:

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/general-poker-13/

 

[lexian8]

1. super tight in early levels, play mostly premium stuff, even folding AQ, limp in with small pairs and try to set mine.
2. middle stages try and conserve your stack or build on it slightly.
3. Abuse the weaker players and look for good spots to pick up blinds, try and work out whos likely to call and whos likely to fold, calling ranges etc, then once in money play to win


watch the blind to stack ratios, once antes kick in you could be playing a whole new blind structure..
EXAMPLE- 5 ppl left blinds are 150 300 with 25 ante, so the blinds are essentially around 200 400 due to the ante increase

if for example your in sb and the bb has less than 10 bb, its a push with anytwo cards, unexploitable play and +ev in the long run

then just practice a heap and learn each time, its hard to play perfect sng poker, review your HH and work out where you can improove

WiZZiM, thank you for those solid advice. One problem playing tight is that I find myself short stacked when there are 4 or 5 players left, really sucks getting busted at these stages.

 

[spiderman637]

1.)"SURVIVE" should be your main goal than "KNOCKING OUT" someone...

2.) Don't play too many hands. Play only good ones.

3.)During early phase, play real tight with real good hands only.In middle phase u need to learn how to steal and re steal the blinds.In late phase, switch to allin or fold mode...

And most importantly u cant win a game if u don't know how to manage bad beats... I mean going on tilt...

 

[Debi]

WiZZiM, thank you for those solid advice. One problem playing tight is that I find myself short stacked when there are 4 or 5 players left, really sucks getting busted at these stages.

If you are truly playing tight you shouldn't be short stacked too often at that stage. But the great thing about sng's is that the short-stacked player can come back to win the whole thing.

I was down to less than 300 chips with 5 players left the other night and ended up winning the sng.

I am not the greatest sng player in the world but I am getting some good coaching. If you ever want me to sweat you or vice versa I would be glad to.

 

[lexian8]

If you are truly playing tight you shouldn't be short stacked too often at that stage. But the great thing about sng's is that the short-stacked player can come back to win the whole thing.

I was down to less than 300 chips with 5 players left the other night and ended up winning the sng.

I am not the greatest sng player in the world but I am getting some good coaching. If you ever want me to sweat you or vice versa I would be glad to.

. When its down to 4 or 5 players, I do worst when every player's chip stack is more or less even.

Strange, but I prefer one individual to hold a monster stack and let him/her bust the rest of them, then at heads up, I play my A game against him/her, most of my first place wins are won this way.

I think I need to work out how to steal and bluff when 4 or 5 players are left, because of the antes. Or is there something I am missing ?

 

[Debi]

. When its down to 4 or 5 players, I do worst when every player's chip stack is more or less even.

Strange, but I prefer one individual to hold a monster stack and let him/her bust the rest of them, then at heads up, I play my A game against him/her, most of my first place wins are won this way.

I think I need to work out how to steal and bluff when 4 or 5 players are left, because of the antes. Or is there something I am missing ?

Your aggression should be very strong when there are 5 players left. Not so much bluffing as stealing and re-raising and using your position and playing your chip stack properly.

 

[WiZZiM]

WiZZiM, thank you for those solid advice. One problem playing tight is that I find myself short stacked when there are 4 or 5 players left, really sucks getting busted at these stages.

ok so in late stages of sng everyone will generally have around 10-20 bbs so esentually everyone is shortstacked. what you need to do is take advantage of the knowledge that everyone is being dealt the same crappy hands you are..

give you and example of a few spots i found myself in recent sng's.

Early in SNG this is how tight i play... i did also have a read that the guy was strong, he was a regular sng player, i couldnt put him on a small pair but i couldnt rule it out either due to him perhaps misclicking, if he reraised preflop i wouldve had to go all in..

--------------------
HAND 1
--------------------

$5.50 Buy-in (15/30 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tourney, 9 Players
Poker Tools by Stoxpoker - Hand Details


UTG: 1,470 (49 bb)
UTG+1: 1,450 (48.3 bb)
MP1: 1,590 (53 bb)
MP2: 1,575 (52.5 bb)
MP3: 2,150 (71.7 bb)
CO: 1,095 (36.5 bb)
Hero (BTN): 1,410 (47 bb)
SB: 1,530 (51 bb)
BB: 1,230 (41 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is BTN with K:spade: K:heart:
2 folds, MP1 calls 30, 2 folds, CO calls 30, Hero raises to 185, 3 folds, CO calls 155

Flop: (445) 6:heart: 4:spade: 8:diamond: (2 players)
CO bets 90, Hero calls 90

Turn: (625) 7:diamond: (2 players)
CO bets 150, Hero calls 150

River: (925) T:diamond: (2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks

Results:[spoil] 925 pot
Final Board: 6:heart: 4:spade: 8:diamond: 7:diamond: T:diamond:
CO showed A:club: A:diamond: (a pair of Aces) and won 925 (500 net)
Hero mucked K:spade: K:heart: (a pair of Kings) and lost (-425 net)
[/spoil]


ok another spot, here im raising for a few reasons, 1. the player in the bb has less than 10 bb, so shoving here with anytwo is an unexploitable play (meaning no matter what his calling ranges are is a profitable play in the long run)
2. the sb only has 25 left, so if the bb folds i pick up the extra 550 odd for free without a showdown.
3. my hand isnt the best, so im actually hoping that the sb wins this hand, i say that because if he stays around a bit longer, then i can push all in every single hand as i know the other two just cant call with even the best of hands, as they will be waiting for the guy with 50 to go out on the bubble.

--------------------
HAND 1
--------------------

$6.50 Buy-in (200/400 blinds, 25 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tourney, 4 Players
Poker Tools by Stoxpoker - Hand Details


CO: 3,140 (7.9 bb)
Hero (BTN): 6,675 (16.7 bb)
SB: 50 (0.1 bb)
BB: 3,635 (9.1 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is BTN with 3:heart: T:diamond:
CO folds, Hero raises to 6,650 and is all-in, BB folds

Flop: (925) T:heart: 2:heart: 6:spade: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
Turn: (925) 7:club: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: (925) Q:diamond: (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results:[spoil] 925 pot (175 rake)
Final Board: T:heart: 2:heart: 6:spade: 7:club: Q:diamond:
Hero showed 3:heart: T:diamond: (a pair of Tens) and won 750 (325 net)
SB showed 3:club: 5:spade: (high card Queen) and lost (-50 net)
[/spoil]



if you want me to post a few more of these just let me know.. just a couple to give you an idea..

 

[SPCotter]

i stongly disagree with this statement also, early sng levels you simply cant win enough to make these connector type hands plus EV, they will end up costing you more money than its worth, the main aim is to conserve your stack for later rounds when the blinds go up so that you have enough chips for fold equity..

short term yeah you may have success but over the long run, you will lose money playing sit and gos this way...

To add to this the small money you lose in one hand early on, may have a cumulative effect from then on, you rinse 100 calling with your 78s, and 10 hands later you double up with KK you're potentially 200 chips short of where you could have been. This has an impact on your ability to control the table later on as more people get knocked out and the blinds go up.

As a beginner I would advocate sitting tight and playing to cash, with a bit more experience, I do believe it is right to focus for the win, especially when sat with weak opponents. If you have enough experience to pick your spots and to know most of the time when you are behind in shove/fold spots, the payout structure (often 50/30/20) rewards this type of strategy. You also have to work on your heads up game for this to work, playing a lot of HU SnGs to get practice. I have nearly double 1st place finishes than my 2nd and 3rd places put together, although I do have higher than average 4th and 5th place finishes. For me it's a profitable strategy that me and my game is comfortable with.

Nit it up through the first few levels, as said playing only premium hands, there is really no need to get involved otherwise, it's ok to setmine out of position even say in the blinds if you're getting a good price pre flop, (std raise and call before action comes to you), but there isn't much value playing suited connectors you will be making life very difficult for yourself post flop unnecessarily in a 9 man SnG. See who the passive players are, make plenty of notes, see who likes to limp in out of position with weak hands etc. When it comes to applying said strategy these are the guys you prey on, really applying pressure to bag their chips. You want to bully the weaker players, and pick your spots well against the stronger players, and don't be afraid to fold vs resistance when holding a marginal hand

 

[lexian8]

Thank a lot for taking the time to explain WiZZiM, SPCotter.

I have been cashing in even more consistently now, but of course I am bracing myself for a inevitable losing streak. I wonder if I can achieve a 50/50 cash in rate.

As for "picking spots", I have improved much since I drop back to playing one table and start getting a feel of the game.

Great advice, really appreciate it.

 

[The_Pup]

As for "picking spots", I have improved much since I drop back to playing one table and start getting a feel of the game.

I think you have hit the key thing here. Unless I happen to hit a hand, I use the first few blind levels to suss out my opponents. Once the blinds get to a level worth stealing I hope to have some idea who is fairly safe to steal from, who is a calling station, who will try to come over the top with 2nd best hand and so on. A HUD, such as Poker Tracker, is a very useful aid to this. With experience, it is usually fairly easy to spot the fish, the solid players, the multi-tablers and so on; and also to know how their game will change as we approach the money.

Here's a little training tip: as the game progresses see if you can predict which other two are joining you in the top three places. If you are regularly correct you are doing something right and when you get to the top three you should now have a plan of how to beat them.

 

[larryalx09]

Hey Guys... I like to play SnG's because they give me the opportunity to get a lot of poker action for a relatively small amount of money. I think The structure of SnG’s is usually that of a one-table freezeout and the top 2 or 3 places pay out. Since you’re going to be starting out with at least 9 or 10 players at your table, it makes sense to play pretty tight in the early stages of these tournaments. The logic is simple: many of your opponents will be wild and tend to gamble early on.there are three key point is ........

BB hand guide facing a SB raise

position

Preflop ....!

 

[rugby0]

Read all three of harrington's books. And work all the problems. Then read the theory of poker.

 

[WiZZiM]

Read all three of harrington's books. And work all the problems. Then read the theory of poker.

unfortunately dan isnt a sng expert, so yes read them, but accumulation isnt the way to play SNG profitably.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

- If you're debating whether to raise/call or fold preflop early on (up to say 50/100 in a 'standard' 1500 starting chips SNG), fold.

- If you're debating whether to raise/call or fold preflop late on (from the bubble onwards), raise.

- You should never be going bust early on unless (a) you are coolered or (b) you've taken a really bad beat

- Learn ICM (google and CC search are your friends).