One **** up situation

dresturn2

dresturn2

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Sep 29, 2007
Total posts
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Stacks: - mpb99 with 2180 - RedRoosterAA with 3977 - Mikeeraiseit with 430 - dresturn2 with 2860 - Ravemachin with 13700 - Pille1905 with 6440 - Rastaman1010 with 3360 - bobo7705 with 7780 - Blupurrs with 5445

index.pl


index.pl

Blinds:
Site: full tilt poker
Dealt to dresturn2:
ac.gif
9c.gif

* - Sklansky group 5
Preflop:
* - rastaman1010 calls [200] dresturn2 calls [200]
* - ravemachin calls [100]
* - Pille1905 checks
* - Folds: 5
* - Potsize: 800
Flop:
as.gif
4c.gif
ah.gif

* - Ravemachin checks
* - Pille1905 checks
* - Rastaman1010 checks dresturn2 checks
* - Potsize: 800
Turn:
8s.gif

* - Ravemachin checks
* - pille1905 bets [200] dresturn2 raises to 900
* - pille1905 raises to 6,240, and is all in
* - Folds: 2

Poker Hand Converter By Cardschat.com Poker Forum
 
dresturn2

dresturn2

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This guy pille is an extremely tight player but how can i fold this hand, what do u think should be done
 
P

ph_il

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i wouldve bumped it up PF. One limper and the blinds behind you, this is the kind of hand I like to raise with.

Opponent could have anything. When you say tight, are they tight aggressive with their hands? Tight passive? Opponent could have a set of fours, a set of eights, possible A8, Ax below your 9, a flush draw. I doubt the flush draw though with that push, if he is a tight player. Would you expect a FPR with a PP, AK, AQ, etc?

If you fold, you leave yourself with less than ten BB. Im not sure how confident you are playing as one of the SS. If this opponent has been showing nothing but the nuts constantly, i would fold. Otherwise, I'd go ahead and call here after commiting over a third of my stack. I can still beat a lot of hands and I have some outs on the river.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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You cant fold here.

Yes you most definitely can. This is a very tight player who's pushing into us; he's rarely if ever bluffing here. The only times we're ahead are when he's bluffing (v rare) and when he's got a smaller ace (also unlikely, though more probable).

I don't think folding is the clear cut answer here, but I'm leaning towards it rather than calling.

The biggest issue here is your PF action. Like philthy mentioned, if we're playing this we need to raise it preflop to define our hand. As played, we're completely in the dark, and have a much tougher decision than we would have had had we just raised. We could be behind a slowplayed AT+, A8, 44/88 for a full house, a smaller ace or we could even be up against a bluff, though it's unlikely.
 
W

WhatItDew

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Your problem is your preflop play. You limped into a pot with 3 players from late position with a marginal. IMO, you have to raise here preflop to get a feel for where you are at in the hand, and to represent strength. You might get some folds, but that is what you want here, because you want to eliminate tough decisions post flop.

And you have to ask yourself what your goal was coming into the hand. Playing Ax suited preflop tells me that you were hoping for a flush. Knowing that, 2 aces on the board doesn't change your strategy in the hand. Make a stab at the pot, and if there is resistence, dump the hand. I would have bet less in my stab at the pot than overbetting the pot, because that indicates weakness to me, but to each his own.
 
jaketrevvor

jaketrevvor

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The trouble is, with 2 limpers I'm not sure that he would check a high ace, so it's only really 44, 88, A8 AT that beat you
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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An "extremely tight player" will often check AJ and AT. Agreed though - he raises a lot of the hands that beat us...
 
dj11

dj11

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Villain is the BB, and checked up till now. Since in this situation the BB can have any cards, I have to consider that it is more likely he came in with 84 or 94 or 98 than with 99,88, or 44, all of which we beat, and the only hands we lose to are A8,A9, or A4. And the improbable bigger aces.

Since there was no flop action, we should assume there is not a made made hand that can beat us here and since we know we are slow playing this, we cant fold here.

While I agree this could be a trap trap hand, it is just as likely to be a steal. Add that probability (50-50) to the fact that there are no sane draws, and I will call this damn near every time.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Villain is the BB, and checked up till now. Since in this situation the BB can have any cards, I have to consider that it is more likely he came in with 84 or 94 or 98 than with 99,88, or 44, all of which we beat, and the only hands we lose to are A8,A9, or A4. And the improbable bigger aces.

84 94 and 98 are not shoving here. They may fire out a small bet and possibly call a raise, but will NEVER shove vs a TAG. Our line looks exactly like a slowplayed ace.

I do agree that a lot of the hands that beat us are likely to raise preflop, but TAGs do check marginal pairs like 8s and AT type hands out of position at this stage of the game.

Since there was no flop action, we should assume there is not a made made hand that can beat us here and since we know we are slow playing this, we cant fold here.

That's ridiculous. Him slowplaying an ace or a set doesn't come to mind?

While I agree this could be a trap trap hand, it is just as likely to be a steal. Add that probability (50-50) to the fact that there are no sane draws, and I will call this damn near every time.

The fact that there are fewer draws only means that he has to have more of a hand since he can't be semibluffing. He might be semibluffing the flush draw but I highly doubt it.

I think it's more likely than I'd originally thought that we're ahead here, but I think this depends on your reads of him and how likely he is to check marginal hands like 8s 9s and AJ type hands from the BB.

We beat: A2-A3, A5-A7 and bluffs.
We're beat by: A4, A8, AT+, 88 and 99.

I'd say that bluffs in his range take up Harrington's %10 minimum and no more. All the hands in his range that we beat (5) fit his line perfectly.

His hands in the range that we don't beat is a little fuzzier, and it depends on your reads. If he's checking the pairs and up to AT, then it's kind a coinflip as to whether or not we're ahead. If he's passive enough to check AJ+, then we probably have to fold.

Then again we're getting 2:1, more than enough vs his range even if he's checking AK....bah
 
THe Slob

THe Slob

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At the $2 SNG tables at Tilt, I've had people shove similar boards, and turn over pocket K's, or lower.

Villain could be putting you on a steal after you checked the flop and is pushing a re-steal, especially if he's played with you often and knows you are capable of laying down a big hand.

If he's ultra tight, as described, and would not push anything other than the nuts, and you know this for a fact, then you gotta lay this down.

Before mucking however you have to consider that once you fold you'll have less than 10BB's, and when are you going to have a hand this strong again?

Man, it's a tough decision to call or fold in this spot, especially when you only have 30 seconds to make it.

What did you wind up doing?
 
vanquish

vanquish

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Hellmuth talks about commiting a lot with a weak ace on a AAxxx board as spewy in one of his blog posts (a while ago, I don't have link), you can easily get away from this in a deeper stacked, higher stakes MTT, but in a $2 I'd be inclined to put it in and see my opponent with some sort of pocket pair.
 
K

Kajagugu

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The only reason you are in this position is that you let it get to this. You have to always ask yourself these questions:

1) How do I want to play this hand?
2) Am I telling the right story?
3) What story does my opponent tell?

Why would you play A9s from the button with a limp? Are you hoping to catch a flush or a flush draw? If so, you are spewing chips and good luck to you. If this is not the reason then you have to raise and represent a strong hand and see what happens. Are you afraid of the UTG limp? Then either fold or raise to see what he has. By just limping you now have to play 3 opponents who could have anything.

I would put some chips in the pot on this flop. Just to build the pot up and figure out if someone has something. I probably bet 1/2 pot or so here. This might also seem deceptive because everyone will wonder why you would be betting your flopped trips and call with weaker hands.

On the turn, you have to try to reconstruct the hand. Did he actually limp with a strong Ace? Has he done this before? Is he just playing back at you because he thinks you are making a moving on the button?

If he has A8 or A4 he doesn't shove, but rather let you hand yourself. So that doesn't make much sense unless he is over-betting for value. Same goes for 44 or 88.

So I can only put him on a few hands that beat you. I figure as a big stack he would raise AK or AQ against limpers. He might play AJ or AT for the limp if he is as super tight as you say. You are ahead of anything else. So if he has AJ or AT you are a 2-to-1 dog.

My guess is that he ended up with a flush draw and a big stack and trying to scare you out of the hand. You wouldn't be in this position if you had raised pre-flop.

The last mistake I think you made here is re-raising on the turn. I would just call here and see what happens later. By re-raising you are opening the door to a jam, which is what you got. Now what?

So how did it end?
 
jaketrevvor

jaketrevvor

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PF you have to raise and represent a strong hand and see what happens.

Pretty much agreed - I raise to 1000 or so with position, then if we get reraised by UTG limper fold assuming he has Ks or As fishing for the raise. You have to define both your and villain's hand strength PF so you don't get into a pickle later on, and always difficult seeing a flop with mid-ace anyway

Is he just playing back at you because he thinks you are making a moving on the button?

Doubt we would be making a play into 3 ppl, any of which could be slowplaying an ace. Any button plays would have been made PF most likely.

If he has A8 or A4 he doesn't shove, but rather let you hand yourself.

Tight player probs would not call UTG with A-rag

So that doesn't make much sense unless he is over-betting for value. Same goes for 44 or 88.

Sure he can defend his hand with these in case we hit our kicka or another ace even, and its not really an overbet when you look at our stack size

So if he has AJ or AT you are a 2-to-1 dog.

?

My guess is that he ended up with a flush draw and a big stack and trying to scare you out of the hand. You wouldn't be in this position if you had raised pre-flop.

Although he is tight I guess this is fairly possible.

The last mistake I think you made here is re-raising on the turn. I would just call here and see what happens later. By re-raising you are opening the door to a jam, which is what you got. Now what?

I agree a jam is very inviting here but there's no way you flat call here, as from villain's betting it's very easy to put him on a flush draw trying to pick the pot up and we don't want to give him a free card - besides we need to know more about where we are in the hand.

Above

I used you as a catalyst for my thoughts Kajagugu if thats okay! :)
 
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