unlucky obviously, but did I do anything wrong?

soccerfreakjj10

soccerfreakjj10

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I was just eliminated from the 28K guarantee - one of the first. Obviously, I was sucked out on, but did I do anything incorrectly? The key areas in my opinion are my flat call on the flop, and less than all in bet on the turn. A key thing to look at imo also is the blinds - my M is huge.

full tilt poker Game #5060289857: $28,000 Guarantee (37744515), Table 81 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:04:15 ET - 2008/01/30
Seat 1: NutTeller (2,970)
Seat 2: Suckout2006 (2,790)
Seat 3: KeyserSoze05 (2,955), is sitting out
Seat 4: KatieKat78 (3,660)
Seat 5: Krispex (3,000)
Seat 6: pflippaD12 (3,000)
Seat 7: busthemove (3,000)
Seat 8: soccerfreakjj10 (3,000)
Seat 9: ucb3454 (2,625)
KatieKat78 posts the small blind of 15
Krispex posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to soccerfreakjj10 [Ah Qc]
pflippaD12 folds
busthemove raises to 100
soccerfreakjj10 calls 100
ucb3454 calls 100
NutTeller folds
Suckout2006 folds
KeyserSoze05 folds
KatieKat78 calls 85
Krispex calls 70
*** FLOP *** [8d As 2d]
KatieKat78 checks
Krispex checks
busthemove bets 500
soccerfreakjj10 calls 500
ucb3454 folds
KatieKat78 folds
Krispex folds
*** TURN *** [8d As 2d] [Qd]
busthemove checks
soccerfreakjj10 bets 1,500
busthemove raises to 2,400, and is all in
soccerfreakjj10 calls 900, and is all in
busthemove shows [Ad Kh]
soccerfreakjj10 shows [Ah Qc]
*** RIVER *** [8d As 2d Qd] [Ks]
busthemove shows two pair, Aces and Kings
soccerfreakjj10 shows two pair, Aces and Queens
busthemove wins the pot (6,300) with two pair, Aces and Kings
soccerfreakjj10 stands up
 
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Bentheman87

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As I was reading this, before I saw he had AK, I was gonna tell you to fold AQ os against an early position raiser. Then when he bet big into the flop against four opponents it's obvious he's not making a continuation bet he's making a value bet. So before I scrolled down I thought he had AK. Still it's pretty much a cooler when you have AQ and your opponent has AK and you both flop an Ace and the rest of the flop is rags. So you should have reraised on the flop imo.
 
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snrcreech

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I have gone down the same way many times. I see no way to avoid those type of hands. You know you have them dominated and the river bites you in the azz
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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Please elaborate how this would have changed the outcome of the hand in anyway. A K is going to call your reraise.

At this stage you don't know that he's got AK... maybe a re-raise could push the villain off a flush draw. But if they're on the flush draw, then they're already laying themselves the wrong price so you wouldn't want to disrupt them :p

I tend to agree though, a raise on the flop will probably only be called by hands that beat us.
 
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Bentheman87

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"Please elaborate how this would have changed the outcome of the hand in anyway. A K is going to call your reraise."

Topic creator said he thought one of his key errors was just calling on the flop but youre right it wouldn't have changed the outcome. And I say it's best to fold AQ preflop here against an utg raise and with the whole table still to act.
 
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snrcreech

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At this stage you don't know that he's got AK... maybe a re-raise could push the villain off a flush draw. But if they're on the flush draw, then they're already laying themselves the wrong price so you wouldn't want to disrupt them :p

I tend to agree though, a raise on the flop will probably only be called by hands that beat us.

Point taken, you're correct
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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Topic creator said he thought one of his key errors was just calling on the flop but youre right it wouldn't have changed the outcome. And I say it's best to fold AQ preflop here against an utg raise and with the whole table still to act.

I dunno - stacks are deep and we have position on the raiser (though if someone comes in after us we're in trouble).

So I don't think I fold this very often pre-flop... indeed, thinking about it I wouldn't have hated a raise pre-flop.
 
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Bentheman87

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But most players have very strict starting hand requirements like JJ-AA, AK or AQ in early position. And stacks are deep and our M is over 20 so we want to play more conservative and fold hands like AQ os. And we'll only have position on the utg raiser and the blinds but we'll be out of position against the rest of the table if they call.
 
soccerfreakjj10

soccerfreakjj10

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"Topic creator said he thought one of his key errors was just calling on the flop but youre right it wouldn't have changed the outcome. And I say it's best to fold AQ preflop here against an utg raise and with the whole table still to act.

I was actually talking about, instead of reraising the flop, which i think would be a terrible move, actually folding to his bet. However I didn't because I looked at it like this: he very well could have me beat with AK (or better.) If the villain bets out huge on the turn, I will fold. If he checks or bets small I will reevalulate. Also if somebody comes over the top from behind I will lay it down. If I was OOP i am probably laying it down on the flop.
 
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Bentheman87

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"I was actually talking about, instead of reraising the flop, which i think would be a terrible move, actually folding to his bet. However I didn't because I looked at it like this: he very well could have me beat with AK (or better.) If the villain bets out huge on the turn, I will fold. If he checks or bets small I will reevalulate. Also if somebody comes over the top from behind I will lay it down. If I was OOP i am probably laying it down on the flop."

Why would you call his bet preflop then? What other kind of flop are you hoping for besides the one you flopped? That's a perfect flop for AQ. And the guy with AK did play it weird postflop. Betting the flop then check raising the turn, so I don't blame you for betting on the turn.
 
soccerfreakjj10

soccerfreakjj10

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"I was actually talking about, instead of reraising the flop, which i think would be a terrible move, actually folding to his bet. However I didn't because I looked at it like this: he very well could have me beat with AK (or better.) If the villain bets out huge on the turn, I will fold. If he checks or bets small I will reevalulate. Also if somebody comes over the top from behind I will lay it down. If I was OOP i am probably laying it down on the flop."

Why would you call his bet preflop then? What other kind of flop are you hoping for besides the one you flopped? That's a perfect flop for AQ. And the guy with AK did play it weird postflop. Betting the flop then check raising the turn, so I don't blame you for betting on the turn.

I called his bet preflop because there are a range of hands i feel he is raising there that I am flipping with or beating.

and by then I did have top two pair so that was easy.

Also, I had position (sorry for unorganized response doing a lot right now lol)
 
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Bentheman87

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"I called his bet preflop because there are a range of hands i feel he is raising there that I am flipping with or beating."

Well, you've just won the coinflip by flopping an ace, and if you feel he's raising with hands you beat (AJ-A9) then why didn't you raise him on the flop?
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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Well, you've just won the coinflip by flopping an ace, and if you feel he's raising with hands you beat (AJ-A9) then why didn't you raise him on the flop?

I suspect because you're only getting called by hands that beat you.
 
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