TPGK facing river shove

[CMAZ]

Hi Guys,

I have been playing 6max cash games for quite some time and decided to give tourneys a go.

This was my 5th tourney to date. I had been playing pretty tight, only getting involved with good starting hands and had been quietly accumulating chips. Admittedly I should have raised it PF considering my cards and position, I will chalk that one up to experience.

Villains stats overall: 37/17/2.5 over 40 hands.
His stats for this blind level were 67/17/2 over 6 hands
Apologies for the small hand sample but as I said this is my first time playing MTT tourneys.
Considering he limped in, min bet the flop, potted the turn and shoved the river I was thinking he may have a had 66,22 or holding a 4.

Looking through the 5-6 hands previous I didn't notice anything untoward in the villains play.
He tended to open raise or shove PF with and limp / call into pots where there was a previous raise / open limp.

What range of hands would you put villain on and would you have called the river?

Any constructive feedback would be greatly appreciated.


full tilt poker Game #8442046010: $3 + $0.30 KO Sit & Go (64240756), Table 10 - 60/120 - No Limit Hold'em - 10:33:04 ET - 2008/10/11
Stacks:
* UTG with 1580
* UTG+1 with 1890
* MP1 with 6120
* MP2 with 11820
* CO with 9645
* BTN with 4685
* SB with 1360
* BB with 3025

Blinds:
Site: Full Tilt Poker
* * Dealt to BTN:J♦ A♠
* * Sklansky group 4
Preflop:
* * 3 players fold.
* * MP2 calls [120]
* * 1 players fold.
* * Hero calls [120]
* * SB calls [60]
* * BB checks
* * Total folds this street: 4
* * Potsize: 480
Flop:
* * A♣ 6♥ 4♦
* * SB checks
* * BB checks
* * MP2 bets [120]
* * Hero calls [120]
* * 2 players folded.
* * Total folds this street: 2
* * Potsize: 720
Turn:
* * 4♥
* * MP2 bets [720]
* * 2 players fold.
* * Hero calls [720]
* * Potsize: 2160
River:
* * 2♠
* * MP2 bets [10,860, and is all in]
* * 1 players fold.
* * Uncalled bet of 10,860 returned to MP2
* * MP2 wins the pot (2,160)
* * Total folds this street: 1

Poker Hand Converter By Cardschat.com Poker Forum

 

[p0K35]

humm, ok, let's see here:

With AJo, this should be an easy preflop button raise, standard like. Make it 360 (or tack on a BB for the limper). If you can't commit 10% to this hand, just fold to the final tbl. Seriously, you need to look for spots to make some chips. Without raising, you're letting a lot of limping cruft into a hand that should not be seeing a flop.

Ok, so you limp, argh!

Flop comes, check, check, MP2(Bigstack) limper leads out for min bet??? Bang! Raise them! Bang in bet of 600 or more, you flopped TPGK. Find out where you are at, or make any wonky draws pay.

The preflop limp, is mistake 1, not raising the flop, is even bigger mistake 2.

Turn comes, and here is mistake 3. They bet the pot! AND YOU CALL??? Why? IF you can't raise the min bet flop bet, why the heck would you call that? Save the 720 and fold.

What do you want here? If you play weak/passive, you reap what you sow, not much.

Btn raise. easy.
Raise that weak flop bet. easy.

Please, try to actually win the hand, instead of call/folding to aggression.

 

[CMAZ]

humm, ok, let's see here:

With AJo, this should be an easy preflop button raise, standard like. Make it 360 (or tack on a BB for the limper). If you can't commit 10% to this hand, just fold to the final tbl. Seriously, you need to look for spots to make some chips. Without raising, you're letting a lot of limping cruft into a hand that should not be seeing a flop.

Ok, so you limp, argh!

Flop comes, check, check, MP2(Bigstack) limper leads out for min bet??? Bang! Raise them! Bang in bet of 600 or more, you flopped TPGK. Find out where you are at, or make any wonky draws pay.

The preflop limp, is mistake 1, not raising the flop, is even bigger mistake 2.

Turn comes, and here is mistake 3. They bet the pot! AND YOU CALL??? Why? IF you can't raise the min bet flop bet, why the heck would you call that? Save the 720 and fold.

What do you want here? If you play weak/passive, you reap what you sow, not much.

Btn raise. easy.
Raise that weak flop bet. easy.

Please, try to actually win the hand, instead of call/folding to aggression.

Hi Pok35,

As i said I knew I screwed this hand up the minute I limped PF.
I will be the first to admit its the weakest game I have ever played, not proud of it but chose to post this hand in an effort to learn what this betting line would mean.
As this is my first venture into MTT Torunies I truly did not know what to expect but decided to approach it as more of a learning experience.
The more I think about this hand the more my gut tells me he was just wielding his big stack around and may have had bugger all.


Thanks for the advice regarding the correct betting line and bet sizes I should have taken. I wont be making this mistake again.

 

[vanquish]

Iso-raise preflop. Fold turn? I think?

 

[CMAZ]

Iso-raise preflop. Fold turn? I think?

Thanks Vanquish. Just been looking through a the rest of the hands and the one thing that struck me as strange was the sheer number of people that would limp PF.

At the time I didn't know whether to interpret this as an attempt to see the flop cheaply or whether certain players were playing very trappy.

Look like I was the fish in this tournament, never again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[vanquish]

Thanks Vanquish. Just been looking through a the rest of the hands and the one thing that struck me as strange was the sheer number of people that would limp PF.

At the time I didn't know whether to interpret this as an attempt to see the flop cheaply or whether certain players were playing very trappy.

Look like I was the fish in this tournament, never again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a general rule, when you have something you would open-raise with (with the exception being if you're super loose on the button but stacks are really shallow), you can isolation-raise preflop (in position) any limpers and expect to take the pot either then, or by c-betting the flop. (If stacks are really shallow, you should probably fold/shove, so this may not apply as much.)

 

[CMAZ]

As a general rule, when you have something you would open-raise with (with the exception being if you're super loose on the button but stacks are really shallow), you can isolation-raise preflop (in position) any limpers and expect to take the pot either then, or by c-betting the flop. (If stacks are really shallow, you should probably fold/shove, so this may not apply as much.)

Thanks for the advice Vanquish, much appreciated.
I think its time to revisit my poker books. Spent allot of time reading them last year but have been solely focused on playing cash games since.

Any further tips @ playing at this tournie level will be greatly appreciated.

I think I will stop kicking myself now


Thanks again,

 

[vanquish]

Thanks for the advice Vanquish, much appreciated.
I think its time to revisit my poker books. Spent allot of time reading them last year but have been solely focused on playing cash games since.

Any further tips @ playing at this tournie level will be greatly appreciated.

I think I will stop kicking myself now


Thanks again,

Let me see. It's been a while since I took tournaments seriously. So, infinite aggression is good (try playing an entire tournament and never using the call button.) Also, at some point, try playing with a piece of tape or a post-it over your cards, so you can't see them, and see how well you can do in non-showdown pots. If you are successful at this, you are playing well positionally and exploiting weakness well. Those are two things I did to get better at tournaments.

 

[salex77]

Raising short handed game

Yes with AJ with the players limping in front of you, you have to raise preflop even with aq, a 10, or pr lower than premium 10,10 9, 9 etc or KQ even J10 any reasonable to hand to establish your position which allows you to gain information on your opponents and know where you're at in the hand in relation to your opponents.

 

[CMAZ]

Let me see. It's been a while since I took tournaments seriously. So, infinite aggression is good (try playing an entire tournament and never using the call button.) Also, at some point, try playing with a piece of tape or a post-it over your cards, so you can't see them, and see how well you can do in non-showdown pots. If you are successful at this, you are playing well positionally and exploiting weakness well. Those are two things I did to get better at tournaments.

Thanks again Vanquish,
I remember reading how Annette_15 (apologies if I have mispelt her ID) used to do this.

I will give "no call button" a go tonight. I may even drop down a buy in level or two as I feel part of the reason I have been playing too passively is due to playing outside of BRM (I believe the standard rule is 100 buy ins for tournies as opposed to 20-30 buy in rule I stick to in cash games).

I had a quick look at my PT3 PFR stats for tournies vs cash games and sure enough they were poles apart (I usually run around 13-15 in cash games and dropped of below 9 for the few tournies I played).

As embarrassing as this post has been it certainly has taught me a valuable lesson.

Sometimes the most obvious solution is staring you in the face yet you just can't see it. (until someone else points it out)

It is safe to assume that the villains betting line had nothing to do with his cards but more to do with me playing scared and the same time taking advantage of being the big stack.

Thanks again

 

[mrjohnson911]

Yes with AJ with the players limping in front of you, you have to raise preflop even with aq, a 10, or pr lower than premium 10,10 9, 9 etc or KQ even J10 any reasonable to hand to establish your position which allows you to gain information on your opponents and know where you're at in the hand in relation to your opponents.

i'd actually say on the button with few limpers, you can raise up anything, you re in position and youre opponents have shown weakness