Tournament early chip leader question. PLEASE HELP!!!

[dpthcharg206]

Ive played several MTT tournaments recently, and have done great at the beginning. For instance today i started a $1000 guaranteed 47 person $20+2 buy in tourney. Blinds were average, ten minutes between levels and we started with 1500 chips. I hit a few great hands early on including a royal flush! and by the time we were at about 40 people i had the chip lead at 8000. At this point the blinds were about 50/100 and i knew if i just sat out i would probably make the top 9 paid spots. This is where I run into trouble though. The first trouble hand i was dealt JJ and was up against J10. The flop came 10 8 4. I raised and player went all in for 3k. I made the call and the final board came 10 8 4 Q 10. He sucked out with a %5 percent chance of winning and took me down to 5k. Another couple little preflop reraises and I was down to about 4k. Then a player to my right goes all in with A7 offsuit for 2k and I call with A10 off. (maybe not the best play but he was getting desperate and I had a feeling i had him beat). Flop comes A 6 7 K 3. Obnoxious little shit also calls ME a loser after he sucks out. either case now im down to 2k and the blinds are 100/200. I let about 15 hands go by calling two blinds and folding on the flop and am down to 900. i look down at Q10 hearts and push all in with one caller, QQ. Flop comes Q 8 4 5 3 rainbow and i bust out in 13th place, four out of the money. Same thing happened the other day in a 5k with 130 people, we got down to 80 people left and i was chip leader 5x the average, and ended up busting out in 52nd place. So here's the question, With the chip lead early in the tournament, should I just sit out for 30 minutes and pay 1500 of my 8k in blinds to sit there and still be in the top 5 chip stack, should i be ultra aggressive and put pressure on the short stacks, or should i continue to play as normal, ignoring my chip lead?!?!?! It seems like it would have been preferable to be sitting at the final table short stacked than to play and get sucked out on a couple times and find yourself busting out early. Please help, theres nothing crappier than going from chip leader to busting out on the bubble!!!!

 

[mickyb]

It sounds like you played fine. Getting to 8k chips at that point is great, obviously, but there's still a long way to go - you'll still need some luck just to make the prizes. After all, the average chip stack when you reach the bubble will be 7k, once you've been blinded away you'll be pretty short-stacked at this point. Even if you could guarantee a prize by auto-folding, it wouldn't be worth it - Have a look at the prize structure, you want to keep the chance of a top three finish!

The only thing I'd say is that by the time you're down to ten big blinds, I wouldn't limp - if I play a hand, I'm going to go all-in.

 

[mickyb]

Just to explain that last comment -

I wouldn't ever limp under those conditions. If I think I rate to make money from being in the pot, I should be raising.

If I raise to three-times the big blind, I'm almost pot committed - if someone goes all-in now, I only need to win 40% of the time in order to make it worth calling. In practice, I randomise it slightly (raising between 50-100% of my stack, following with the rest of it on the flop), trying to get the opponents to 'detect' a pattern that isn't there.

 

[p0K35]

Be curious as to what type of game you are playing to get the big stack...

Sitting out will certainly endear yourself to the rest of your table, but why? Sitting out gives you no chance at improving your chip position. Keep playing the same game that got you to the BS, else don't play, imo.

Sure, you may get unlucky, picking opponents off, but you be playing. Better than sittin out, right?

Personally, I like playing the BS, can see more hands, and push people around. But that is me, why doesn't playing the same game work for you?

 

[dpthcharg206]

A little new insight

My buddy that I talk poker with has told me this before but it's worth revisiting...When you are the big stack you should be playing pots with stacks that are average or a little above average size and avoiding the short stack and big stacks. The reasoning is the short stacks are pot committed when they decide to play a hand and especially against a big stack, are likely to push at some point in the hand, leaving the big stack with a tough, probably marginal decision that could cost more chips than the situation warrants, but they call knowing that the short stack would push with or without something. This leads to calling with second pair, etc. The large stacks obviously could do serious damage so youd like to avoid those also. In this particular situation I was playing against 2k to 3.5k stacks with my 8k chip lead which is about right. I guess it all comes down to a couple crucial suck outs and a failed bluff and there goes the tournament.

 

[dpthcharg206]

pok, I agree that being the big stack allows you to see more flops. I was playing fairly tight aggressive to reach chip leader, maybe thats where i made a mistake playing two big hands instead of investing limp calls and waiting until i hit trips, two pair, or can call a small bet drawing to a flush or straight. On the other hand holding JJ and my opponent pushing J10 with the flop 10 8 4, then Q 10 hitting is pretty standard winning play on my part, and A7 vs my A10 was a pretty nasty suck out too. im not sure i could have got away from playing a big pot on the first one, i might have avoided calling an all in with A10, especially after taking a big hit with the trip 10s sucking out. playing a few smaller pots and getting my stack back up at that point may have been a better decision.

 

[dj11]

I have mixed feelings (whoa whoa whoa) about early big stacks. Not that I don't like them, but they tend to fade faster. In those situations where I tend to do better results wise, I tend to play slower, more methodically. Within standard deviations of average usually, perhaps a jump up now and then or a dip, in either case altering my game a bit.

With a big stack I will see more flops, but only on the cheap. I am not marrying these hands. If I hit something of interest, I might chase if the price is good, but seldom will I try to bluff. My experiences with bluffing occasionally go bad, and when they do I end up showing cards I don't want anyone to see.

So while almost everyone will take the 'see more flops' route when big stacked, that doesn't necessarily mean 'take more chances'. My guess is that perhaps you, like me, like a lot of folks start feeling a bit invincible when early big stack situation occurs. Trust me, we are all vincible.

 

[p0K35]

pok, I agree that being the big stack allows you to see more flops. I was playing fairly tight aggressive to reach chip leader, maybe thats where i made a mistake playing two big hands instead of investing limp calls...

We'll get to that in a sec, but good, your not 'Lucking' your way into the stack, playing good poker and running good, right? Nevermind, it's ok...

I'm not recommending accumulating chips and pissing them away. No, no, no, wanna keep them chips and add more chips when the opportunities arise.

So back to the posted quote, you did fine and right thing in both spots, imo, but, suckouts happen. This is holdem poker, you're never getting anyone drawing dead preflop, so do the best you can. On the flop, you may have the nuts, and may have an opponent dead, but that rarely happens, so on and so on to showdown. People are gonna hit 18, 12, 9, 4, 2, 1 outers from the flop on to showdown, occasionally...

Personally, if you are getting your chips in good with 66% or better chance, you're playing good poker, ok, maybe 62% is ok also, lol.

As far as the earlier post about being a big stack, I don't avoid small/short stacks, or even other med/big stacks. I take every opportunity to pressure the small stacks, with position and FOLD equity, and play my own game against other big/med stacks cautiously, let's say...

I think they write books about this stuff, but, with experience, one should get rather comfortable with playing the big stack. Lastly, don't the 'suckouts' happen at the same frequency, regardless of stack size? Seems to me they do...