Top set vs all-in

[Alon Ipser]

18 seat SNG and Play'n was just seated with me at the final table so no idea what his range might be but I'm spooked here.

pokerstars Game #14220533316: Tournament #72172981, $1.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2007/12/31 - 03:24:04 (ET)
Table '72172981 1' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: mOllyyy (635 in chips)
Seat 2: ehlixar (1825 in chips)
Seat 3: Play'nStoned (5300 in chips)
Seat 4: slcikjim (1300 in chips)
Seat 5: Alon Ipser (5590 in chips)
Seat 6: LOSG40 (4030 in chips)
Seat 7: oampoker (2505 in chips)
Seat 8: bankman48 (4165 in chips)
Seat 9: $weet Pea (1650 in chips)
bankman48: posts small blind 75
$weet Pea: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Alon Ipser [Th Ts]
mOllyyy: folds
ehlixar: folds
Play'nStoned: calls 150
slcikjim: folds
Alon Ipser: calls 150
LOSG40: folds
oampoker: folds
bankman48: folds
$weet Pea: checks
*** FLOP *** [7c 3h Tc]
$weet Pea: checks
Play'nStoned: bets 600
Alon Ipser: calls 600
$weet Pea: calls 600
*** TURN *** [7c 3h Tc] [9d]
$weet Pea: bets 150
Play'nStoned: raises 4400 to 4550 and is all-in
Alon Ipser: ???

 

[Cheetah]

I would call.

You are beating lower set, top pair, overpair, two pairs, flush draw, str8 draw.

You are only behind an already made str8, but you still have 10 outs to redraw to FH.

If you win, you are likely to finish top place.

If you lose, you are still not out and still have chance to make the money.

 

[pigpen02]

If he had the made straight, his bet was too big. I agree with Cheetah that you probably are ahead now and would call.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

Raise preflop, turn is an instacall for the aforementioned reasons.

 

[Alon Ipser]

It is a $1 game and just wanted to see if there was an argument to be made about protecting my stack. I wasn't happy after this hand and ended up losing to the same guy a couple hands later. Tilted, not because I lost but because I didn't win if that makes sense.

PokerStars Game #14220533316: Tournament #72172981, $1.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2007/12/31 - 03:24:04 (ET)
Table '72172981 1' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: mOllyyy (635 in chips)
Seat 2: ehlixar (1825 in chips)
Seat 3: Play'nStoned (5300 in chips)
Seat 4: slcikjim (1300 in chips)
Seat 5: Alon Ipser (5590 in chips)
Seat 6: LOSG40 (4030 in chips)
Seat 7: oampoker (2505 in chips)
Seat 8: bankman48 (4165 in chips)
Seat 9: $weet Pea (1650 in chips)
bankman48: posts small blind 75
$weet Pea: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Alon Ipser [Th Ts]
mOllyyy: folds
ehlixar: folds
Play'nStoned: calls 150
slcikjim: folds
Alon Ipser: calls 150
LOSG40: folds
oampoker: folds
bankman48: folds
$weet Pea: checks
*** FLOP *** [7c 3h Tc]
$weet Pea: checks
Play'nStoned: bets 600
Alon Ipser: calls 600
$weet Pea: calls 600
*** TURN *** [7c 3h Tc] [9d]
$weet Pea: bets 150
Play'nStoned: raises 4400 to 4550 and is all-in
Alon Ipser: folds
$weet Pea: calls 750 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [7c 3h Tc 9d] [6c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
$weet Pea: shows [9h Jc] (a pair of Nines)
Play'nStoned: shows [Td 4d] (a pair of Tens)
Play'nStoned collected 4125 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4125 | Rake 0
Board [7c 3h Tc 9d 6c]
Seat 1: mOllyyy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: ehlixar folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Play'nStoned showed [Td 4d] and won (4125) with a pair of Tens
Seat 4: slcikjim folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Alon Ipser folded on the Turn
Seat 6: LOSG40 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: oampoker (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: bankman48 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: $weet Pea (big blind) showed [9h Jc] and lost with a pair of Nines



The hand I lost with


PokerStars Game #14220565742: Tournament #72172981, $1.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2007/12/31 - 03:27:43 (ET)
Table '72172981 1' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: mOllyyy (535 in chips)
Seat 2: ehlixar (1525 in chips)
Seat 3: Play'nStoned (4245 in chips)
Seat 4: slcikjim (300 in chips)
Seat 5: Alon Ipser (4840 in chips)
Seat 6: LOSG40 (8960 in chips)
Seat 7: oampoker (2505 in chips)
Seat 8: bankman48 (4090 in chips)
slcikjim: posts small blind 100
Alon Ipser: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Alon Ipser [Qs 5d]
LOSG40: folds
oampoker: folds
bankman48: calls 200
mOllyyy: folds
ehlixar: folds
Play'nStoned: calls 200
slcikjim: calls 100
Alon Ipser: checks
*** FLOP *** [8d 8s 6c]
slcikjim: checks
Alon Ipser: checks
bankman48: checks
Play'nStoned: checks
*** TURN *** [8d 8s 6c] [Qh]
slcikjim: checks
Alon Ipser: checks
bankman48: checks
Play'nStoned: bets 1000
slcikjim: folds
Alon Ipser: raises 1000 to 2000
bankman48: folds
Play'nStoned: raises 2000 to 4000
Alon Ipser: raises 640 to 4640 and is all-in
Play'nStoned: calls 45 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [8d 8s 6c Qh] [6h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Alon Ipser: shows [Qs 5d] (two pair, Queens and Eights)
Play'nStoned: shows [Qc 9d] (two pair, Queens and Eights - Nine kicker)
Play'nStoned collected 8890 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 8890 | Rake 0
Board [8d 8s 6c Qh 6h]
Seat 1: mOllyyy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: ehlixar folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Play'nStoned (button) showed [Qc 9d] and won (8890) with two pair, Queens and Eights
Seat 4: slcikjim (small blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 5: Alon Ipser (big blind) showed [Qs 5d] and lost with two pair, Queens and Eights
Seat 6: LOSG40 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: oampoker folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: bankman48 folded on the Turn

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

oh my.

 

[switch0723]

how can you have insane discipline to fold top set which is the 3rd nuts, but go all in with a hand that is beating by any 8 and against another queen the best you can hope for is a tie, really strange play

 

[Alon Ipser]

how can you have insane discipline to fold top set which is the 3rd nuts, but go all in with a hand that is beating by any 8 and against another queen the best you can hope for is a tie, really strange play

Tilt tilt tilt

After the all in with that first hand, of course he's just pushing me around now with something like an ace high on the second. Isn't it obvious. :shot:

 

[altruist]

It is a $1 game and just wanted to see if there was an argument to be made about protecting my stack. I wasn't happy after this hand and ended up losing to the same guy a couple hands later. Tilted, not because I lost but because I didn't win if that makes sense.

It's hard not to go on tilt after being bluffed off a good hand like that. It's something that you have to develop over time..

In the meanwhile, next time you're faced with this situation, ask yourself:
1. How possible is it he's bluffing or has a hand I can beat based on the flop? (or has two pair, a set of 9s..)
Then ask..
2. Would I go on tilt or get really mad if he had a hand I could easily beat?

If you would answer yes to question 2, you might as well call. Unless of course the board had three of the same suit and just required 1 card to finish a straight.

 

[arkadiy]

Def call.

 

[vanquish]

why'd you fold again?

 

[NineLions]

Yikes, Alon, you and I should form a "tight/scared against donks at micro levels" with "overly aggressive against players that are obviously bad players that took our chips" support group.



I don't know if I'd fold the first hand, but I could see myself doing that. My thinking would be, at this level, I don't have reads yet on this guy and maybe he's the type of player to lead at a gutshot straight. I wanna survive, so I'd better fold.

Then, after seeing his hand, I'd think, he's obviously overplaying, so I've probably got him beat in the second hand.


They say a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, and sometimes that applies to my play at the low micro levels. Here I'm referring to both a little more poker knowledge than the competition, as well as a little knowledge about the opposition. Sometimes I misapply my little bits of knowledge.

 

[AZE]

No raise PF... okay.... why not raise the flop?... okay.... fold on the turn... bad.

Raise PF (optional), Raise flop, call turn.

 

[Cheetah]

For 2nd hand:

I routinely fold top pair bad kicker, especially on a dangerous board and OOP.

Your opponent is obviously a maniac. After the mistake with the first hand, I would try to trap him. Top pair 5 kicker on paired board is not a good situation for that.

 

[honky75]

The first hand is a definate call, it makes you the chip leader if you win, and you still have the next 5 hands to chose from to shove if you lose. As for the second hand well I don't know what to tell you there.

 

[r3l3ntl355]

I read the title of the thread and thought "call."

My thoughts have not changed. Top set here is the easiest call in the world.

 

[paciok]

all in

I would go all in

 

[shinedown.45]

The first hand
The second hand

 

[arkadiy]

Who gave you poker advice to fold the nuts?! :S

 

[c9h13no3]

Who gave you poker advice to fold the nuts?! :S

J8 would be the nuts.

 

[burntrider]

at best he would of had a flush draw with a gut shot straight draw. please don't ever fold top set again. im on tilt just reading this. sorry man. you learned the hard way on not to be so disciplined at low limit tables.

 

[vanquish]

at best he would of had a flush drimaw with a gut shot straight draw. please don't ever fold top set again. im on tilt just reading this. sorry man. you learned the hard way on not to be so disciplined at low limit tables.

burtnrider have you met kathy liebert afaik?

 

[burntrider]

??

 

[baconn]

bad bad poker

 

[arkadiy]

J8 would be the nuts.

Woops! Thought he folded the flop, either way my opinion still stands