Sometimes your the winshield

[arahel_jazz]

Sometimes you're the winshield

$2 +$.50 private tournament. Real early (like the 5th hand).

Full Tilt Poker Game #5165788726: RoundersRadio.com (39160816), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:16:58 ET - 2008/02/07
Seat 1: PeaceBrother (1,485)
Seat 2: xxflash13xx (1,500)
Seat 3: vger76 (1,455)
Seat 4: Tkach 5 (1,560)
Seat 5: arahel_jazz (1,500)
Seat 6: marco457 (1,500)
Tkach 5 posts the small blind of 15
arahel_jazz posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to arahel_jazz [4c 4d]
marco457 folds
PeaceBrother raises to 60
xxflash13xx folds
vger76 folds
Tkach 5 folds
arahel_jazz raises to 120
PeaceBrother calls 60
*** FLOP *** [Th 4s Ts]


Decision time... I was trip fishing, and flopped the boat. Check to slowplay, or shove? Early in tournament, no reads.


arahel_jazz checks
PeaceBrother checks
*** TURN *** [Th 4s Ts] [Td]
arahel_jazz has 15 seconds left to act
arahel_jazz bets 255
PeaceBrother has 15 seconds left to act
PeaceBrother calls 255
*** RIVER *** [Th 4s Ts Td] 6♠
arahel_jazz checks
PeaceBrother bets 1,110, and is all in
arahel_jazz has 15 seconds left to act
arahel_jazz: crud <---- thought he had a 6.
arahel_jazz calls 1,110
*** SHOW DOWN ***
PeaceBrother shows [Tc Ah] four of a kind, Tens
arahel_jazz mucks
PeaceBrother wins the pot (2,985) with four of a kind, Tens
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2,985 | Rake 0
Board: [Th 4s Ts Td 6s]
Seat 1: PeaceBrother showed [Tc Ah] and won (2,985) with four of a kind, Tens
Seat 2: xxflash13xx didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: vger76 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Tkach 5 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: arahel_jazz (big blind) mucked [4c 4d] - a full house, Tens full of Fours
Seat 6: marco457 didn't bet (folded)


Sometimes you're the bug..... Ouch. That one hurt.

 

[jaymfc]

SPLAT I would've folded it

 

[arahel_jazz]

You are kidding, right? Fold a boat? I don't think I have that level of skill.

 

[ChuckTs]

You do know that 55-AA, Tx, 6x all have you beat...

As played the river should be a very very easy fold.

 

[Dewmz]

Oddly enough...I saw Full Tilt, I saw you with pocket 4s, and I saw the flop..

I KNEW he had T4, before I scrolled down.


Oh well.

 

[WVHillbilly]

Oddly enough...I saw Full Tilt, I saw you with pocket 4s, and I saw the flop..

I KNEW he had T4, before I scrolled down.


Oh well.

Oddly enough you were wrong.

 

[Dewmz]

Not the first time..

 

[WVHillbilly]

Really? I assumed it was a 1st.

Do you really think the FT is rigged as your post seems to imply?

 

[BillyTheBull]

You are kidding, right? Fold a boat? I don't think I have that level of skill.

I guess, on the flop, I would agree with you -- if he'd pushed then, you'd have to call. But I agree with Chuck that, as the hand played, a check-fold on the river was the obvious -- although admittedly painful -- choice. :argh:

(By the way, great thread title . . . I love that song!) :thrasher:

 

[shinedown.45]

The all-in by villian would have been an easy fold, sure you had a boat, but any PP higher than 4s and a 6 have you beat.
If you thought he had a 6, why did you call?

 

[robwhufc]

RoundersRadio.com SCAB!

Dealt to arahel_jazz [4c 4d]

PeaceBrother raises to 60 - Min raise

arahel_jazz raises to 120 - Min raise
PeaceBrother calls 60
*** FLOP *** [Th 4s Ts]

Decision time... I was trip fishing, and flopped the boat. Check to slowplay, or shove? Early in tournament, no reads.

arahel_jazz checks - slow play
PeaceBrother checks - slow play
*** TURN *** [Th 4s Ts] [Td]
arahel_jazz has 15 seconds left to act
arahel_jazz bets 255 - pot bet
PeaceBrother has 15 seconds left to act
PeaceBrother calls 255 - rubbing hands!
*** RIVER *** [Th 4s Ts Td] 6♠
arahel_jazz checks - give opponent initiative
PeaceBrother bets 1,110, and is all in - all in, bold move
arahel_jazz has 15 seconds left to act
arahel_jazz: crud <---- thought he had a 6. - so you are behind, to a 6 and virtually any pair (plus a 10 of course
arahel_jazz calls 1,110- Oh
*** SHOW DOWN ***
PeaceBrother shows [Tc Ah] four of a kind, Tens
arahel_jazz mucks
PeaceBrother wins the pot (2,985) with four of a kind, Tens
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2,985 | Rake 0
Board: [Th 4s Ts Td 6s]
Seat 1: PeaceBrother showed [Tc Ah] and won (2,985) with four of a kind, Tens
Seat 2: xxflash13xx didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: vger76 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Tkach 5 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: arahel_jazz (big blind) mucked [4c 4d] - a full house, Tens full of Fours
Seat 6: marco457 didn't bet (folded)


Sometimes you're the bug..... Ouch. That one hurt.

The whole hand is pretty terrible - why min raise pre-flop? If you get raised again are you going to be able to call?

Post flop, has he bet enough pre-flop to make you think he is going to fire out again? The pot is small, you've got a huge hand, why not bet it out a bit and build the pot up? I imagine if he had bet, you'd have gone all-in in a micro-second - that's a totally obvious play that my work in these games, but wont work at higher levels.

Post turn - very bad card for you - the worst possible. NOW you bet, the whole pot? Why so much? Do you want him to call with a weaker hand - yes! 100-150 would keep him interested (though you should be betting more into a bigger pot by now).

Post flop - call was bad for you after you bet so much, but he could be calling with Ace x trying to hit a card. How do you know where you stand? Put out a bet and see what happens. Instead you check, he bets, and you? Well it's total guesswork to be honest - logically you are behind any conceivable holding a halfway decent player will be playing, your only hope is that he's a gambler trying to get an early flier in a cheap game.

Why did you say check or shove on the flop? you can always bet something in between you know!

 

[Gobbs]

$2 +$.50 private tournament. Real early (like the 5th hand).

Full Tilt Poker Game #5165788726: RoundersRadio.com (39160816), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:16:58 ET - 2008/02/07
Seat 1: PeaceBrother (1,485)
Seat 2: xxflash13xx (1,500)
Seat 3: vger76 (1,455)
Seat 4: Tkach 5 (1,560)
Seat 5: arahel_jazz (1,500)
Seat 6: marco457 (1,500)
Tkach 5 posts the small blind of 15
arahel_jazz posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to arahel_jazz [4c 4d]
marco457 folds
PeaceBrother raises to 60
xxflash13xx folds
vger76 folds
Tkach 5 folds
arahel_jazz raises to 120
PeaceBrother calls 60
*** FLOP *** [Th 4s Ts]


Decision time... I was trip fishing, and flopped the boat. Check to slowplay, or shove? Early in tournament, no reads.


arahel_jazz checks
PeaceBrother checks
*** TURN *** [Th 4s Ts] [Td]
arahel_jazz has 15 seconds left to act
arahel_jazz bets 255
PeaceBrother has 15 seconds left to act
PeaceBrother calls 255
*** RIVER *** [Th 4s Ts Td] 6♠
arahel_jazz checks
PeaceBrother bets 1,110, and is all in
arahel_jazz has 15 seconds left to act
arahel_jazz: crud <---- thought he had a 6.
arahel_jazz calls 1,110
*** SHOW DOWN ***
PeaceBrother shows [Tc Ah] four of a kind, Tens
arahel_jazz mucks
PeaceBrother wins the pot (2,985) with four of a kind, Tens
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2,985 | Rake 0
Board: [Th 4s Ts Td 6s]
Seat 1: PeaceBrother showed [Tc Ah] and won (2,985) with four of a kind, Tens
Seat 2: xxflash13xx didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: vger76 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Tkach 5 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: arahel_jazz (big blind) mucked [4c 4d] - a full house, Tens full of Fours
Seat 6: marco457 didn't bet (folded)


Sometimes you're the bug..... Ouch. That one hurt.

I don't really like the out-of-position raise with 44, especially for such a low amount. Raising as he did, you have to put him on, at least, two over cards, and probably a very decent hand. So, what are you going to do if he re-raises? What are you going to do if he calls (which he surely will if he doesn't raise), the flop comes with three overcards, and he bets? I think calling was your best option pre-flop.

I don't mind the check after the flop. Personally, I like to bet in this situation about 80% of the time, but you can't argue with the slow-play here.

I like the bet after the turn, but his calling might have told you that it was time to slow down. Betting to get information was a good thing. Ignoring the information you received was a bad thing.

I think, with the wide range of hands that beat you after the turn, a check-fold on the river was appropriate. It's almost too bad the river was a six and not a better card. You might have had an easier time getting away from it since it was not likely he had a six. Still, there was just too many hands that had you beat.

On the other hand, I love your opponents all-in move on the river. He had to believe he was going to get called a large portion of the time and acted accordingly.

 

[Dewmz]

Do I think FT is rigged? Not necessarily..

Do I think they could use a better algorithm for shuffling? Definitely.

 

[Gobbs]

Do I think FT is rigged? Not necessarily..

Do I think they could use a better algorithm for shuffling? Definitely.

Sorry for the threadjack, but didn't I read somewhere that the algorithm's are actually "too random" and produce results that are not typical to what people normally see because most dealers don't get a random shuffle? Of course, it could have something to do with simply seeing so many more hands, too.

 

[zachvac]

Do I think FT is rigged? Not necessarily..

Do I think they could use a better algorithm for shuffling? Definitely.

Please provide a single ounce of evidence that their algorithm is in any way not random. Note there is no such thing as "more random". Either each card in the deck is equally likely to come up (random) or it's not (not random, or at least not correctly randomized).

To the OP:

Would you have trouble folding 22 if the board was AAAQ7? That would be a full house as well. You flopped a monster, but the turn counterfitted one of your 4s. Sucks, but that's poker and you need to be able to fold that, just as I hope you would fold 22 to the AAAQ7 board.

 

[arahel_jazz]

Thanks all for the reality check.