QQ facing PF Shove

[The Shrog]

We've seen this push a handful of times so far, sometimes when the pot is already raised, others the opening raise...

full tilt poker Game #5768732346: $16,000 Guarantee (43199285), Table 36 - 120/240 Ante 25 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:46:38 ET - 2008/03/24
Seat 1: EzMoney85 (5,071)
Seat 2: Kailua2000 (11,970)
Seat 3: VirtualThief (4,690)
Seat 4: TriPacer (11,775)
Seat 5: potkraj (9,218)
Seat 6: The Shrog (9,150)
Seat 7: Liquidmaker (16,881)
Seat 8: S50CAL (6,475)
Seat 9: InoUrCards2 (4,181)
EzMoney85 antes 25
Kailua2000 antes 25
VirtualThief antes 25
TriPacer antes 25
potkraj antes 25
The Shrog antes 25
Liquidmaker antes 25
S50CAL antes 25
InoUrCards2 antes 25
EzMoney85 posts the small blind of 120
Kailua2000 posts the big blind of 240
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to The Shrog [Qd Qc]
VirtualThief raises to 650
TriPacer raises to 11,750, and is all in
potkraj folds

?

 

[Steveg1976]

If he has been pushing a lot then I say take a shot. If you get caught and he has AA or KK, well it does happen. From your initial statement though it sounds like he has much wider shoving range than just premiums.

 

[c9h13no3]

Does the fact that the original raiser is a short stack affect the hand? If the original raiser folds, he'll be left with an M of 7. And if he's got a hand like AK or even AX, I can't see him laying this down. The thing is, I'm not sure if him being in the hand is a good thing or a bad thing for us.

The short stack would add more juice to the pot, but at the same time he would reduce our chances of doubling up as well, since if he wins, we don't double up even if we beat the shoving big stack.

If the initial raising villain is weak, and can fold his initial raise, then I think this is an instacall due to the shoving villain's past behavior. If the initial raising villain is very likely to dump his chips in as well, then I'm not exactly sure what to do, and I'm way too sleep deprived to think about it further

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

If villain has been overbet shoving a lot I definitely like calling here.

I probably still call against an unknown, too.

 

[viking999]

I probably still call against an unknown, too.

I'd like some evidence of looseness or impatience before calling this all-in. The villain has a big stack relative to the blinds, but not relative to the other players. He should be in no rush to, as they say, "make something happen" at the risk of all his chips. Plus, he reraised an UTG raiser from the UTG+1 spot. To me it screams strength if he's a somewhat normal player. And let's not forget that there are 5 players yet to act who could wake up with a monster.