Pocket Jacks

[checkoutcardschat]

What to do? What to do?

bodog $10K guar $11 3:30pm Sunday

You have mid Stack(right at tourney average), bubble time, tight player (he's got more chips than you) raises 3x on the button, you wake up with JJ.

Three ways to go:
1- Call- lets see what the flop brings- until one sees a Jack or just undercards then check and raise (that will definetely tell you where you are). assumption- opponent will make continuation bet with any two cards
2- Raise- no need to wait for the flop- a raise will tell you where you are based on his reaction. con- will cost you many more $$ if opponent reraises
3- Fold- wait to pick on others who are just trying to make the $$, Darn JJ just doesn't come around that often.

How would you act?
Other options?

 

[t1riel]

Option 1.

Even agaiunst a tight player (and Heads up), I would like to see the flop at least.

 

[robwhufc]

Option 1.

Even agaiunst a tight player (and Heads up), I would like to see the flop at least.

And then do what? Fold if an Ace, King or Queen flops? Fold if 3 of the same suit flop? Fold if the flop is all low, but they bet out again (cos they MUST have AA KK or QQ)?

We need stack sizes and we need blinds. Generally in late tournaments it costs too much to "see a flop". If someones on the button, they are going to be raising a hell of a lot, even if they are tight. Re-raise them, your Jacks are likely to be good.

Even if someone has more chips than you, they aren't going to want to lose 2/3rds of their stack, not if they are eyeing up the final table - raise them and take the pot down.

And don't call.

 

[KillerBoo]

#3 says it all. You never want to call in that position. Are you playing scared money and want to be sure to last through the bubble? If so, FOLD. Dont give a damn about just making the first payout spot? Reraise and take it down or at least get an idea of what you are up against. If he re reraises you, then you are beaten. But never ever call it.. with any overcard on the flop he would steal it from you

 

[mightyah]

since your playing against a player who you think is tight but has moire chips than you, he must be raising with the nuts. Or he could just be doing what you said, picking on ppl who are just trying to make it past the bubble. But if you need help deciding, that usually means your not confident you have the best hand so you must there for.... Option 3 - Fold

 

[ZzRick]

well i would do option 1 just because even if he has the nuts if you can flop a J then your good to get a bigger stack to go even deeper. And you never know whats gonna happen i meann 3X bb won't kill you But with what rob said id still just call its a gutshot basically for me

 

[Babynut]

I'd call here. I think I am ahead here but I still want to have an exit strategy. JJ's are a strong hand but I will proceed with caution. If I have a read on this player I may push and get them to lay down a wide range of hands they would have raised with.
However, I must admit, I hate jacks. I'd rather play 10's. I have a history with JJ's

 

[sportznut55]

I'm not a huge JJ fan from small blind. Any raise has to come with some degree of respect. In other words, holdings are still somewhat tight. Here's my take. At this level, I'd play it like a small to medium pair and look for a set. If it costs you less than 10% of your stack to call, go for the call. If it costs you much more than that, give it up. If you hit the J on the flop, push hard and double up. Crazy aggression after a preflop call drives tight players crazy and they call with marginal holdings.

 

[j0sh1ngU]

call and push on flop. if no queen king or ace. if he reraises it most likely may be a continuation bet and hes just trying to take down the pot.

 

[KillerBoo]

call and push on flop. if no queen king or ace. if he reraises it most likely may be a continuation bet and hes just trying to take down the pot.

First off, how would he reraise an all in?
2nd, Tpo call with JJ with the intent to push at a low flop out of position must be the worst play of them all.. OK, you will get him to fold AK and any pocket pair below the JJ you are holding but hten again: Dont we want the Villain to call here, with a lower hand. The only hand that will fold to the all in is a hand you can beat, any hand that calls you is more or less likely to push you out of the tournament. If he IS bluffing, it would be much safer and cheaper to re-raise (even minimum will do at the stage), preflop. If he indeed has aces, kings or queens he will re-reraise all in and you can get away much cheaper than if you push at a low flop, right into him and he turns over a set or overpair. If you just call preflop and minibet on a low flop, he would take it away from you with an all in bet, alternatively just hit you on the turn.
The problem here, as I see it, is that you have no idea whatsoever as to what he´s holding (more than that he is a tight player) and therefore you cannot just push on the flop unless you are SURE he would fold a better hand. But think about it, would YOU fold a set, aces, kings or even queens on a low flop? You cant make him put you on a set by pushing all in. If you want to represent a set you have to checkraise him at this stage I think, and if he bets after you checked, you need to make sure he isnt committed to call you with a higher pair when you reraise him..
My first thought still stands, you reraise preflop or you fold. And if you do fold close to the bubble, with a pair of jacks, I want to see you at the tables

 

[jrmonty]

I would say this really depends on the blind size to your stack size and your opponents personally i would say if you have 15+ big blinds this is an attempt at a steal considering you said he had a tight image and its near the bubble.
I would think about moving all in as it takes away the postion disadvantage after the flop and if he is a tight player he will probably fold.

I wouldnt want to really see a flop here so close to the bubble because you will probably be left with a difficult decision after the flop if medium cards come up you might be against a meduim pocket pair and be faced with trips or if high cards come up you probably gonna have to fold, these are hands he will probably fold against a reraise preflop.get all your chips in while your ahead.

 

[KillerBoo]

Another thing to consider is what kind of image YOU yourself have at the table.... Have you been raising reraising, playing a lot of crap hands aggressive earlier on, then even if he IS a tight player, he wouldn´t respect your all-in preflop so much if he has a good hand himself. A push preflop, might make him put you on a steal/re-steal, and even make him call you with a hand he most likely usually folds -given the assumption he really IS a tight player- AQo, and then you have a flip. Hardly what you would want at that stage. But its pretty standard in the age of online poker, to click the all-in button for no better reason than to play the community card lottery. Now, according to available stats online, OP is a semi-loose player, with a history of high aggression which would make a call with AK and AQ likely, if he puts you on just a ragged ace, or KQ re-steal. Oc, this time he would be wrong, but a thoughtless all-in preflop is hardly the best EV+ in this case.
Would be a different thing if your table image was more like a Rock, or at least tight. Then HE would have to think twice, not as in this case where it´s you that have a diff decision to make. However, if the Villain is tight or not, if its been folded to him, at the button, he will raise a hell of a lot more times as a steal compared to when he does have a hand. Therefore, re-raise preflop to get at least an idea of what you might be up against. It might even get you a "free" turn card as well.

 

[Mortis]

And then do what? Fold if an Ace, King or Queen flops? Fold if 3 of the same suit flop? Fold if the flop is all low, but they bet out again (cos they MUST have AA KK or QQ)?

Well, if they are the same suit, and you have a Jack of that suit.. definitely wouldn't fold. You have the flush draw, inlcluding a royal flush draw.

With A-K-Q of the same suit, and you have a Jack with the same suit, then it's still a 50/50 chance of winning against a 2 pair, and 3:1 chance of winning against trips.

 

[RickH2005]

AAaaaaaarrrrGGGggggg!!!!!

JACKS?? JACKS?? Pocket JACKS!!?? Three ways to play 'em--ALL OF THEM WRONG!! RUN--RUN--RUN AWAY as fast as you can!! JACKS ARE :evil: EVIL!!! Wheather YOU got 'em OR someone else has got 'em, doesn't matter---They'll get ya every time! RUN---RUN---RUN!!!!!!

 

[FatBasset]

The key factor for me is that he has more chips than me. A mistake with an all-in pre-flop and I'm out of the tournament. Pocket jacks are not a very strong hand IMO because so many hands everyone will play such as Ax, Kx, Qx and the bigger pairs are either coin flips, 70:30 or dominated. Personally, even he only has one over, I don't want to risk that he puts me on a bluff and calls. Is picking up 4.5BB worth it?

For me it is either call or fold. Since I'm a middle stack I should have enough chips to see a flop and yes fold if the board doesn't improve my hand.

 

[Leo 50]

I have to go with a call, see the flop and then make your decision.

As RickH noted above - Harrington (I think it was him) once said there are 3 ways to play pocket Jacks, all wrong!

 

[DrumDemon]

Personally, I would elect to call. I have the worst luck with these damn things though. Sometimes I raise, sometimes I call and sometimes I toss if I'm sure I ran into an over pair. Doesn't seem to matter though. I end up kicking myself one way or another haha.

 

[fluideng]

Played 5$ rebuy at Bodog and on the bubble dang JJs all in, Im sitting with AA called and he hit the J on river. dang two outter.

 

[snoopy89]

JJ to me is the hand i hate the most......i lose too much with em......I only play that hand one way, i usually shove and shove HARD, ALL-IN baby all you can eat. No other way for me to play it.

 

[chrismonk123]

for me its the all in or the fold! in that situation i would consider folding because u might aswell hold out for someone else to get knocked out!!

 

[halfstone827]

tight player?!

i think ill just call...

 

[KillerBoo]

i think ill just call...

But why??

Tight player, so you just call? OK, then you see a flop.
It comes all low cards, in a rainbow. You have no idea if he has AA KK QQ or AK, made a set with his low pocket or just picking on you. You are first to act at the flop. Since you just called preflop, now what do you do? Checck to him and fold to his bet that COULD be AA KK QQ AK or a small set, or just well a CB to steal from a bubble scared yourself? Or do you push on a flop? If you think you were behind preflop, what would you think you are at a low flop?

All you callers that have posted, Tell me WHY you just call. If you intend to push on a low board, do you fold to a bet.. or are you just calling trying to hit the 2 outer on the flop? Cos if you will fold to any bet, then you might as well fold the JJ preflop. And if you dont reraise preflop cos youre scared you might be behind, then what does a low board do to help you out? If you are behind preflop, then you are behind to any flop that hasnt a J in it..
That´s my main issue here, to call with the intent to fold to a CB. With such a good hand like JJ is, at least you hae to figure out where you are BEFORE a flop that in most cases wont help either of you comes out.