OMG-IM a card rack-Middle set LEAD ?

Lead out or check ?


  • Total voters
    16
tenbob

tenbob

Legend
Awards
1
This is the 3rd hand into the tournament. After busting one of the players on the last hand, after showing down a full house, this is the very next hand. Do you play it the opposite way than the last time ?

https://www.cardschat.com/showthread.php?t=73427

Same format as the last time. Very next hand, im the table big stack. 10K starting chips, im stacked at approx 22K, blinds 50/100

UTG Min-Raises
3 calls
SB folds
Im in the BB with 66

We go to a flop 4 handed with 850 in the pot

Flop 2♣ 6♥ K♦

Once again a dream flop, again im out of position, do i lead out ? If you voted for betting the last hand assume you won. Would you play this time any different? If so why ?

BTW This was the hand that almost ended in a fight :)
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

euro love
This time I check. Your relative position to the PFR (Preflop Raiser) means you get a chance to trap the entire field when he continuation bets (which people tend to do).
 
tenbob

tenbob

Legend
Awards
1
This time I check. Your relative position to the PFR (Preflop Raiser) means you get a chance to trap the entire field when he continuation bets (which people tend to do).


Remember FP, live players have a different outlook to online ones. A check-call/ check raise here will certainly get the PF raiser on edge, even if he has AK , especially after showing such a strong hand the last time. If you checked the last hand surely you'd bet out here ? Wouldnt you play the hand in the exact opposite way to the last time ?
 
JAMILE1

JAMILE1

Cardschat Elite
This is the 3rd hand into the tournament. After busting one of the players on the last hand, after showing down a full house, this is the very next hand. Do you play it the opposite way than the last time ?

https://www.cardschat.com/showthread.php?t=73427

Same format as the last time. Very next hand, im the table big stack. 10K starting chips, im stacked at approx 22K, blinds 50/100

UTG Min-Raises
3 calls
SB folds
Im in the BB with 66

We go to a flop 4 handed with 850 in the pot

Flop 2♣ 6♥ K♦

Once again a dream flop, again im out of position, do i lead out ? If you voted for betting the last hand assume you won. Would you play this time any different? If so why ?

BTW This was the hand that almost ended in a fight :)


my reasoning is definitely flawed;) but I say check here, I think this hand with this flop is ideal for a trap here, higher flopped set from earlier hand without all those draws on a relatively weak present flop to me says check-call, see where you at as I think maybe someone hit a King, hoping for a bet as KK highly unlikely here( I say this just on the PF action) , really nothing to worry on the turn than I would make a sizable raise after turn.

BTW Drunk no count;)
 
Last edited:
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

euro love
If you checked the last hand surely you'd bet out here ? Wouldnt you play the hand in the exact opposite way to the last time ?
Ah, sorry, I misread it. Yeah, I figured "last hand, I would have bet, so now I check" but you meant that since you actually checked last hand it would make sense to bet here.

What I meant by trapping the entire field isn't necessarily that you check-raise, just that if you bet and UTG raises you are very unlikely to get any callers. I also figure that the preflop raiser will c-bet often and that people the other people in the hand are aware of this. Therefore, his bet signals less strength than you leading out necessarily would. Then, when the action gets back to you, you're in a good position to either smooth call or check-raise, depending on what else has happened. The decision to CR or call is not to be made yet.

As for playing the very next set differently, that's thinking on a level that I'm not convinced is good, but since the last hand apparently caused some discussion around the table, it may depend on what exactly was said during that discussion.
 
t1riel

t1riel

Legend
There could be a great check raise situation here. Someone will bet if there are checks with a King on the board. A great opporunity to win some a good amount of chips playing this way.
 
gord962

gord962

Legend
If you checked last time, then I would agree to betting out here.

I would have preferred to bet the last hand and check this one. The PF raiser is to your left, so there is a chance he will raise your bet, scaring off the rest of the table.

Since you checked last time though, there is a good reason to lead out after the flop. This hand there is a K on the board, so anyone holding any K, regardless of the kicker, will call your bet to see the turn card. As long as your bet isn't bigger than 3/4 the pot, you will get some good action.
 
bubbasbestbabe

bubbasbestbabe

Suckout Queen
Small bet here. Not enough to show anything, maybe represent A rag. then wait for some action. If nothing next bet raise it up a little. If still no hard bites, at river 3/4 pot.
 
Four Dogs

Four Dogs

Legend
Awards
1
This time I raise big. Don't know exactly why, but it feels right, especially considering the last hand is fresh in everyones mind.
Does anyone ever raise at this table? Looks like a family pot every time.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

Legend
If you bet here, it will be allow you to play aggressively and bluff more later on. People will remember that you lead out with very strong hands and will be less inclined to call you down on continuation bets later.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
The last thing your opponents will be expecting is for you to 1) have a set again and 2) be leading with it. Anyone with a king will definitely stick around, and if someone's holding AK KQ or KJ you're probably going to win a nice pot.

Plus you need to bet for value (;) FP)

I lead, and hope that someone's holding KQ.
If you bet here, it will be allow you to play aggressively and bluff more later on. People will remember that you lead out with very strong hands and will be less inclined to call you down on continuation bets later.
This would be true, but considering how TB trapped with last hand's set, I think they'll probably peg him as a trick player rather than a straight forward bets-with-strong-hands player.
 
Jack Daniels

Jack Daniels

Charcoal Mellowed
Okay, it's late...I read OP and voted. Now, I don't know if I voted correctly. My vote is to do the opposite of whatever was done the very last hand. If it was bet, then check now. If it was check, then bet now.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
I think people are placing too much importance on what went on in the previous hand.

People aren't going to think "Well obviously he has a set again" if you check having checked last time, or bet having bet last time. It seems (basing this opinion on 2 hands only admittedly), that you're at a table full of doofuses who just about know what their own hand is, never mind thinking about their opponent's ranges of holdings.

As regards what to actually do, does UTG c-bet often? Has he minraised before, and if so what with? What do you think his UTG minraise means? EP minraise donks generally fall into 2 categories - those who do it with marginal and sub-marginal hands for God-knows what reason, and those who do it with huge hands hoping to get action (and often getting more action than they should have wished for). If you think UTG minraises here with only strong hands and he c-bets often, it's an argument for checking and expecting that UTG either (a) has a big hand like AA/AK and will lead for value (if villain has KK you're going bust here no matter what you do), (b) will try an ill-advised c-bet into four other players, or (c) will lead with something like JJ to see if his hand is good.

What about the preflop callers? How loose are their calling ranges? In this example it may not affect matters so much as the player immediately behind you is the preflop aggressor and most likely to lead out, and you perhaps don't want to bet and risk a raise from UTG shutting everyone out, although if UTG has a hand he's raising the flop with you will most likely be able to take a ton of his chips.

I think in a complete vacuum devoid of reads I check here, expecting UTG to make a move, hopefully tag along a caller or two and then make my move. The two main differences in this hand as opposed to the last are (a) someone has shown aggression preflop, and (b) fewer players are in the pot and the pot is bigger, thus the range of hands making a play at the pot is most likely wider (something like TPWK or even a total bluff is far more likely to make a move here, for example).

As you've said the hand nearly ended in a fight imma take a random stab and say UTG had AK, one of the callers had 33, and one of them got uber pissed off. ^^
 
Last edited:
tenbob

tenbob

Legend
Awards
1
Ok here is how this finished up. Sorry about the delay.

I lead into the PF raised with an 850 bet, he insta pushes, i insta call,he has AA, i win.

Not a happy camper, I get a fistful of chips thrown in my face, and Mr Donk gets thrown out. One person at the table in particular felt i played both sets terribly. In fact i played both hands in the complete opposite way that i normally play it, I just wanted to post the HH here and see what you thought.

Thats it really, I ended up getting 2nd in this tourney, for $250 (ish).
 
O

OneMoreBust

Rock Star
ITs a shame he threw poker chips at you, hopefully they let him back in again so you can take more off of him :)
 
Top