$ NL HE MTT: QQ on utg 1, would you pay?

[Gritz18]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Freeroll

1. Freeroll

Currency

$

I didn't know the villain and didn't have any notes, but it made me want to call, with the double ace on the flop.

But I remember that he chacked very quickly after the flop, my mistake was having bet big after the flop, I think that in this situation the best thing was to have checked or made a smaller bet.

What do you think?

pokerstars, Hold'em No Limit - 15/30 (3 ante) - 8 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 2,463 (82 bb)
UTG+1 (Hero): 1,944 (65 bb)
MP: 4,996 (167 bb)
MP+1: 1,819 (61 bb)
CO: 2,308 (77 bb)
BU: 3,975 (133 bb)
SB: 1,385 (46 bb)
BB: 1,657 (55 bb)

Pre-Flop: (69) Hero is UTG+1 with Q♥ Q♠
UTG raises to 90, Hero 3-bets to 339, 4 players fold, SB calls 324, 1 fold, UTG calls 249

Flop: (1,071) A♥ A♣ 9♦ (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets 450, SB folds, UTG raises to 2,121 (all-in), UTG+1 (Hero) folds

Total pot: 1,971
UTG wins 1,971

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Obviously we are never folding QQ here, but there is a case to made for just calling, because the action is the two first seats, and its a fairly large 3BB raise, which dont give the blinds the best price to defend. The downside of 3-betting is, it kind of sucks to get 4-bet, because then you either need to fold, or you are quickly getting pot committed, and you are probably not in great shape against the 4-betting range. But of course this is a freeroll, so its also totally fine to say, that if he happen to have AA or KK, then so be it.

Flop
Heads-up I prefer to put out a small bet like 30% pot. But in a 3-way pot I am checking behind here and trying to get to a cheap showdown. As played I think, you have a fairly easy fold. Of course two aces instead of one makes it 33% less likely, someone has it. But the opponent raised UTG and then called a 3-bet out of position, which should be a very snug range. So he will still have AX pretty often here. And even more important what is he bluffing with? Like exactly KQs (which you block) or KJs? Or is he turning TT-JJ into a bluff? I just dont think, there is enough bluffing going on to justify calling it off for all your chips with an underpair. And folding QQ does not mean, you are always folding, since you will have AX yourself a lot of the time.

 

[Gritz18]

Then I analyzed the hand, and I thought I should have played differently, made a small bet after he checked or I also checked since there was a third player in the hand.

Thank you for your analysis @fundiver199, you are always helpful in this regard.

 

[300HPGOD]

I understand that some players that are exponentially better than me rarely if ever raise UTG+1 when UTG has opened but I really think you should be raising here with QQ. The only caveat would be if you feel like you are decently certain that someone behind you will squeeze even just a little light behind and then you can go get massive value with QQ. Most of the time that will be unlikely with an UTG open yet this is a freeroll so if you have a HUD this is where you should be looking to see how many high 3 bet% are behind you and then potentially just call to induce. Imo 65 BBs against loose players (assuming that cause its a freeroll) is not too big to get QQ in. Don't misinterpret that though, I am ready to 4 bet against a squeezer and then if it gets in it gets in but a little different against the UTG villain especially if I have nothing on them. Getting back to why I like raising though, if we just call here then I think a decent chunk of the time, especially freerolls, we will get 2-3 calls behind us and now we would be playing 4 or 5 way and be out of position to some. I like raising and isolating here even though they are UTG. QQ is pretty strong unless you are playing on ACR lol

On the flop I am checking here with my entire range that I got this point with and honestly checking a huge % of the time even when heads up. There are differences in AAx boards where AAQ two hearts is a drastically different board than AA9 rainbow or AA7 rainbow. So here, with no draws and a rainbow board, if I had an ace I would feel like I would really monopolize the board and would not bet. If I had Ax and villain had KK or QQ then checking flop to them might empower them to lead turn or if they dont then I bet turn. Either way with AAx out there and if you are going against KK or QQ (in this hypothetical scenario) then you are probably only getting one street anyway. So with that said I check here on these flops so that my checking range is protected too and the times I have 1010 or something like KQ I can bet turn when checked to and get better hands to fold. So here, there is no reason to bet flop imo and you say to a lot of villain types (especially at your sizing since if you are going to bet it should be very small) that you dont have an ace since the bet is large enough for fold equity and who would be trying to get others to fold the times we do have Ax. So villain could actually bluff here although it would rarely ever happen in this spot at the freeroll level so when we bet and get raised it is an easy fold.

 

[Gritz18]

Thanks for your review @300HPGOD, it's important for me to improve my game.

 

[fundiver199]

I understand that some players that are exponentially better than me rarely if ever raise UTG+1 when UTG has opened but I really think you should be raising here with QQ.

I plugged the spot into GTO Wizard with the only deviation being starting stacks of 100BB, but that hardly makes a big difference. And against a small UTG open UTG+1 does pretty much equal amounts of calling and 3-betting, both with their entire range and with QQ specifically. So 3-betting is definitely not wrong, but at least in GTO / solver world calling is equally preferred. Even KK is called some small percentage of the time, while AA is always 3-bet.

 

[eetenor]

I didn't know the villain and didn't have any notes, but it made me want to call, with the double ace on the flop.

But I remember that he chacked very quickly after the flop, my mistake was having bet big after the flop, I think that in this situation the best thing was to have checked or made a smaller bet.

What do you think?

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - 15/30 (3 ante) - 8 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 2,463 (82 bb)
UTG+1 (Hero): 1,944 (65 bb)
MP: 4,996 (167 bb)
MP+1: 1,819 (61 bb)
CO: 2,308 (77 bb)
BU: 3,975 (133 bb)
SB: 1,385 (46 bb)
BB: 1,657 (55 bb)

Pre-Flop: (69) Hero is UTG+1 with Q♥ Q♠
UTG raises to 90, Hero 3-bets to 339, 4 players fold, SB calls 324, 1 fold, UTG calls 249

Flop: (1,071) A♥ A♣ 9♦ (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets 450, SB folds, UTG raises to 2,121 (all-in), UTG+1 (Hero) folds

Total pot: 1,971
UTG wins 1,971

We would check this flop with the SB calling our 3 bet most often even with an Ace in our hand so this is not a spot to bet- By checking we allow the possibility to see a Q hit and we can also evaluate the turn if our V lead. This is a very dry board so taking a card is less problematic than betting to fold.

Our stack size allows us to get all-in on two streets so pot control is fine here.

 

[300HPGOD]

I plugged the spot into GTO Wizard with the only deviation being starting stacks of 100BB, but that hardly makes a big difference. And against a small UTG open UTG+1 does pretty much equal amounts of calling and 3-betting, both with their entire range and with QQ specifically. So 3-betting is definitely not wrong, but at least in GTO / solver world calling is equally preferred. Even KK is called some small percentage of the time, while AA is always 3-bet.

Yeah I understand that and its what I think a solver would have said but my feelings about this is that solvers/GTO and freerolls are pretty much mutually exclusive and maybe thats wrong but its my opinion. Solvers rely on players playing perfectly, balanced, etc. where freerollers can jam 200 BBs UTG with 95 suited (literally saw it last night) so solvers just cant comprehend that and put that in their play. So yes, against very good players (which is why I mentioned some players way better than me never raise in UTG+1 spots where UTG opened or rarely do) flatting is fine but in a freeroll with a freeroll player already raised in front of you and freeroll players behind us, I think flatting here IN THIS EXACT SPOT IN A FREEROLL is really bad and you will pay for it over time. I only used caps not to scream but to make sure people know I am talking about this spot in freerolls.

As far as other times in this spot in higher buy ins against better players, I totally agree with you

 

[Pokerpoet2]

I would have probably called the 3X pre-flop raise, just to see the flop with any Pocket pair, but once you miss the flop then sure it's a possible bet to try and take the pot there without wanting any more action, but with A,A,9 on the flop any of the other two players could be playing an Ace rag hand, and checking to try and trap you.
If you had checked along with the other players you had the best position to try and win the hand later on without it costing you any more chips. But having re-raised Pre-flop you felt obliged to continue betting and that was where you slipped up, Just because it is normal to make a continuation bet being the aggressor, doesn't mean you have to.
With an over pair on the board already , Even if you hit a Queen on the Turn or River it certainly wouldn't guarantee you winning the pot as some one could have a bigger full house if they had decided to play Ace/9, and once you made that bet your only option would be folding your Queens to an All-in raise, which is what you had to do.
He could be playing any Ace rag hand and still have you beat if you didn't hit a Queen.

 

[Poker Orifice]

I plugged the spot into GTO Wizard with the only deviation being starting stacks of 100BB, but that hardly makes a big difference. And against a small UTG open UTG+1 does pretty much equal amounts of calling and 3-betting, both with their entire range and with QQ specifically. So 3-betting is definitely not wrong, but at least in GTO / solver world calling is equally preferred. Even KK is called some small percentage of the time, while AA is always 3-bet.

How relevant is GTO on a freeroll table?

 

[fundiver199]

How relevant is GTO on a freeroll table?

Maybe not to relevant. But hopefully people are playing freerolls to become better and practice for regular buy-in games? So when a freeroll hand is shared, I do think, it has value to analyse, how it should be played not just in a freeroll but in general. Finally even if the opponents are bad, GTO is always our starting point, and we need a reason to deviate from it. Like for instance in this case, that we think, players behind are calling to much and not squeezing enough. Which might be a reasonable assumption in a freeroll and also in most microstakes games. So yeah I can get on board, that probably 3-bet has a higher EV than flatting, because its a freeroll. But that does still not mean, calling is a mistake. Only folding would be a mistake, which is kind of common sense in this case.