MTT 99 Early

[The Shrog]

So we call to set mine, and then his c/bet looks real weak. Do I just fold here since I missed, or see a turn? Then from there?

pokerstars Game #21056830514: Tournament #112085982, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2008/10/09 14:19:24 ET
Table '112085982 91' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Agfa65 (2955 in chips)
Seat 2: GodsonJr. (2280 in chips)
Seat 3: jpmelman (3305 in chips)
Seat 4: The Shrog (5885 in chips)
Seat 5: thusnelda (2970 in chips)
Seat 6: jamm370 (6305 in chips)
Seat 7: depenne (3445 in chips)
Seat 8: Nick Marston (2965 in chips)
Seat 9: ept 234 (2120 in chips)
depenne: posts small blind 15
Nick Marston: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to The Shrog [9s 9c]
ept 234: folds
Agfa65: folds
GodsonJr.: calls 30
jpmelman: calls 30
The Shrog: calls 30
thusnelda: folds
jamm370: folds
depenne: raises 120 to 150
Nick Marston: folds
GodsonJr.: calls 120
jpmelman: calls 120
The Shrog: calls 120
*** FLOP *** [Jc 4d 2s]
depenne: bets 120
GodsonJr.: folds
jpmelman: folds
The Shrog: calls 120
*** TURN *** [Jc 4d 2s] [Td]
depenne: bets 210
The Shrog: calls 210
*** RIVER *** [Jc 4d 2s Td] [Ad]
depenne: bets 240
The Shrog?

 

[10crow10]

gotta give it up at that point way to much beats you

 

[c9h13no3]

The ace is a baaaaad card for you. What do you beat at this point? All broadway hands got there (they either have a pair or a straight), the backdoor diamonds hit, ect. Your hand can only beat 2x, 4x, 33, 55-88, and suited connectors that just decided to bet every street.

I'd rather turn 99 into a bluff and raise this river than call down, but folding is probably your best option, no matter how weak this bet looks.

You called and villain showed something silly like K9 because this is a SnG?

 

[maspowerj]

mm on river he got you for sure.. You had better reraise the flop.. When he calls that raise he really has a hand.. And you have your information what you looking for Now you have totally no idea what he has..

 

[S93]

I dont mind the flop call(if vilian haves a high c-bet %) but i think i give up by the turn.
Your 55-45 on the flop if vilian range is only broadways and a 73-26 underdog by the turn and the river basicly gives u 0% chance to win.
As played im probly gonna pull of a stupid river bluff that will have like 0% success rate.

Board: Jc 4d 2s
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 55.737% 55.74% 00.00% 566142 0.00 { TT+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }
Hand 1: 44.263% 44.26% 00.00% 449598 0.00 { 99 }

---
40,392 games 0.014 secs 2,885,142 games/sec
Board: Jc 4d 2s Td
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 73.641% 73.64% 00.00% 29745 0.00 { TT+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }
Hand 1: 26.359% 26.36% 00.00% 10647 0.00 { 99 }

Board: Jc 4d 2s Td Ad
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 100.000% 100.00% 00.00% 816 0.00 { TT+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }
Hand 1: 00.000% 00.00% 00.00% 0 0.00 { 99 }

 

[pitter22]

very good post sindri.

I would like making a re-raise on the flop. to see where your at. if he calls he prob has you beat and if he bets into you on the turn you gotta give it up.

i dont like re-raising on the turn because there is now straight and flush draw out there. and with how much he is put in the pot he is pretty well commited to see if he hits the river.

but in the case of what happened and what you have done. you have to give it up on the river. any hand you have him put on has you beat now.

imo u gotta look him up on the flop to see if he is for real.

 

[c9h13no3]

Raising this flop for info is BAAAAD.

 

[S93]

I agree with C9 raising the flop isnt profitable.
Look at this way:
Whe raise to 480 on the flop and only hand that calls or re-raises is a J or 53(not that 53 is in the pot).
Raise= whe either win 630 by risking 480 or whe lose 480 with no chance of geting a worse hand to call.
Whe call= and lose 120 if whe fold when a T,Q,K,A hits,
a low card like a 7 comes and AK,AQ,88,backdoor FD double barrel and whe call or vilian checks and whe take the pot.
Also this is reasult oriented but vilian under bets the pot on bouth flop and the turn so it costs us less to call two street then raise for "info" one street.

 

[S93]

One thing i didnt notice before is that your really deep for a tournement so can any one make a case for re-raising prf to lets say 150 and isolate the limpers infront?

 

[c9h13no3]

One thing i didnt notice before is that your really deep for a tournement so can any one make a case for re-raising prf to lets say 150 and isolate the limpers infront?

Yeah, if villain is raising a wide range, then I certainly like 3-betting.

 

[The Shrog]

We're not that deep in the tournament at all..

Also, didn't realize I posted the whole HH BUT, I just felt like I was ahead until the turn. Like above, all broadway hands got there, any aces...

Later in the tournament, he made the same weak C bet and insta folded when raised, so I just wonder if I could have taken it away on the flop.

 

[S93]

We're not that deep in the tournament at all..

Also, didn't realize I posted the whole HH BUT, I just felt like I was ahead until the turn. Like above, all broadway hands got there, any aces...

Later in the tournament, he made the same weak C bet and insta folded when raised, so I just wonder if I could have taken it away on the flop.

You think 196BB is not deep?

 

[vpb0i]

my guess is, you come in cheap, u go out cheap, no need to gamble here with a limp.

 

[pitter22]

this may be very amateur but ... what information do you get from just flat calling the flop? this guy could be just firing bullets (like you found out later he might be doing) and your showing semi strength/weakness by just calling. I may not completely understand what exactly your saying sindri. you may be able to clarify it

 

[Chiefer]

why are you limping in? you just made baby jesus cry. i hope you are happy.

you are late in position on a full table, with limpers in front of you.

with a hand like this, don't let the players behind you see a free card. don't let the players in front of you limp in. RAISE! be aggressive, nobody else is!

RAISE PRE FLOP!

there is way more to this hand preflop!

 

[S93]

this may be very amateur but ... what information do you get from just flat calling the flop? this guy could be just firing bullets (like you found out later he might be doing) and your showing semi strength/weakness by just calling. I may not completely understand what exactly your saying sindri. you may be able to clarify it

Maby i didnt explain well enought so ill give it another try.
No hand that whe beat calls or re-raises us if whe raise on the flop.
And no hand better then ours folds to a re-raise on the flop.
So if where not folding out better hands our geting value from worse hands, what is the advantage of raising?
By calling whe get some value from worse hands but if whe raise whe only win the pot when whe have the best hand and lose when whe have the worst hand.

And your right just smooth calling doesnt give us alot of info like you point out(exepted if whe some history on what boards/hands vilian double barrels) but where looking to get to cheap showdown with a marginal hand(witch obvs.fails when 2 terrible card hit) not info.

 

[c9h13no3]

so I just wonder if I could have taken it away on the flop.

Seems like results oriented thinking to me... if the turn & river had come more blanky cards (which will happen more often than bad ones for his range) then we wouldn't be posting this. You'd be like "gee, thank goodness I called and got 3 bets from this guy when he had air".

I still think there's merit for bluff raising the turn/river since his bet is so weak.

 

[The Shrog]

I understand what you're saying c9. Also above, I was thinking deep in the tournament number wise, not chip wise, so that's my bad..I agree the stacks are deep. And yes, I don't want to be results oriented, so I'll give the play here some more thought.

 

[vincemcnabb]

Usually, I play the hand the same way you did, cautiously. It's always tough to play a middle pair when there are overs...and unlucky cards hit the turn and river, so I think folding is the only option here

 

[Chiefer]

you need to be the one opening the betting on this hand if you expect to win with it. otherwise you are set mining and you need to be prepared to fold post flop. i would probably see the turn and then check fold if i don't hit my nine.

 

[Phil922]

Well by the river you gotta let it go. I would have reraised him on flop because his small bet just looks like a standard cbet to me.