KJ for resteal? $4/180 final table

ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t3000 (5 handed)

Hero (t63116)
BB (t41065)
UTG (t37629)
MP (t87252)
Button (t40938)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K
spade.gif
, J
club.gif
.
2 folds, Button raises to t12000, Hero ...

Villain is easily the laggiest player at the table at like 24/18/7 and has been stealing in very obvious spots. He raised once for 4-5BB in early position and showed down queens, and since has been popping in those big raises, mostly from LP, and hasn't really gotten played back at or shown down anything. He's been picking on both me and BB, both very tight so far.

A few orbits ago I pulled a resteal in nearly exactly the same situation with him having a slightly smaller stack, and I took it down with AT when he folded.
 
spore

spore

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Well, let's see here chuck. A resteal is going to cost you about t24000 correct? t12000 + t12000 raise. That's almost 40% of your stack. I would agree that he is probably trying to steal, but if he isn't. you've lost close to half your stack. However; even if you are called.. KJ is not a bad hand.

It comes down to this pretty much: are you in the money? Not sure I would go for the re-steal if I was on the bubble with an average stack.. If I was MP in this scenario I would probably go for the re-steal.

But, in your case.. if you're in the money it would probably be worth the risk. If you win the steal it puts you in a very good position with your chipstack and keeps villain from trying steal attempts in the future. And even if you get a call there, or an all-in re-raise.. you still have a decent hand. So, this play has tremendous upside. The downside is, you could be crippled or eliminated if you're unlucky and villain woke up with a big hand. If you're in the money, definitely re-steal.

Okay, now you can accuse me of being too results-oriented. But, this is a tourney.. it's all about results! (i've been gone for a long time, dunno if every gets slammed for being too results-oriented anymore, if not.. sorry was poking fun of a trend a while back) ;)
 
Tygran

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Gonna agree with spore. He's most likely stealing and JK is far from a terrible hand to resteal with so even if you are called it probably isn't a total disaster. I'm reraising.

edit: this is of course assuming you are already in the money, but even if you are still on the bubble I might still resteal. Makes your raise look that much stronger.
 
dj11

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I agree here that there is a results oriented theme involved, but not perhaps the results you think.

If you pop it here, either way the results will be significant, but not so much to your stack, (that of course could be impacted big). The results I am thinking of are that you could shut down his steal attempts in the next few rounds, when any part of the pot are your blinds. These results provide security that the next time he tries it, he will probably have a real hand. You do still have to consider that he is ready for you after your recent re-steal.

You also don't give us much info on the state of the tourney. Are you in big money yet, or are only 2 or 3 spots paying. Both important considerations.

KJ is textbook for challenging a LAG in this spot.

You got outs!:D
 
blankoblanco

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shove, you're way ahead of his range. folding is pretty definitely passing up a big edge, and at a final table with the average stack at not much over 15 BBs, it's overly optimistic to expect to find a lot of spots to outplay everyone with lower risk. bombs away
 
ChuckTs

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You also don't give us much info on the state of the tourney. Are you in big money yet, or are only 2 or 3 spots paying. Both important considerations.

Sorry, I just assumed most knew about the payout structures of the $4/180s. It pays to 18th spot and we're well in the money here at the final table.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

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This is an absolutely ideal restealing situation. Effective stacks of 40k mean you have resteal fold equity and KJ is way ahead of button's range. Shove and be happy.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Well, let's see here chuck. A resteal is going to cost you about t24000 correct? t12000 + t12000 raise.

Sorry to rag on you so soon after your return spore, but that raise would be terrible. 12000 more is almost never going to get him to fold. We have the big disadvantage of being out of position here, and are holding a pretty marginal hand in KJo. Popping in that small amount also give him a chance to get the last raise in which means we often have to face a call for most of our stack. Not good - we want to put the decision on him.

In order to negate those disadvantages we have to raise a lot more (all in!).

If you pop it here, either way the results will be significant, but not so much to your stack, (that of course could be impacted big). The results I am thinking of are that you could shut down his steal attempts in the next few rounds, when any part of the pot are your blinds. These results provide security that the next time he tries it, he will probably have a real hand. You do still have to consider that he is ready for you after your recent re-steal.

Very true and an added bonus to shoving him here. a) I can stop him from stealing with marginal hands (hopefully), and b) we can be sure the next time he raises from the button that he most probably is holding a much stronger hand on average.

shove, you're way ahead of his range. folding is pretty definitely passing up a big edge, and at a final table with the average stack at not much over 15 BBs, it's overly optimistic to expect to find a lot of spots to outplay everyone with lower risk. bombs away

Agreed...

This is an absolutely ideal restealing situation. Effective stacks of 40k mean you have resteal fold equity and KJ is way ahead of button's range. Shove and be happy.

...and agreed.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t3000 (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero (t63116)
BB (t41065)
UTG (t37629)
MP (t87252)
Button (t40938)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K
spade.gif
, J
club.gif
.
2 folds, Button raises to t12000, Hero raises to t62816, 1 fold, Button calls t28638 (All-In).

And now the guessing game begins...what does he call with here?
 
dj11

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Since we put the hand into guessing game status, I'll guess a suited Ace. Let me add why he might. He remembers your previous re-steal, and thinks your re-stealing again, with air, and he is trying to do to you what I suggested was a good thing to do to him.
 
Emperor IX

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Probably the regular racing hands I would assume. Medium to large pocket pair, big ace. He may even have the same type of hand as you, like KQ or KJs
 
skoldpadda

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QJ -- QQx flop. nh.
 
Stick66

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Before I read the latest update, I was going to say:

If you shove, he may be forced to call with anything since the pot would be so big. KJo is a 61% favorite VS a random hand. But how likely would it be that he could have you dominated with KQ or AJ?

Now, to answer what he would call with:

Aside from calling with the obvious "any pair or 2 high cards", he may even want to gamble with any 2 cards he believes are live. JT or QT could be within his range. The best thing here is that you have him out-chipped by 23K. You'll still have a bit of life left if you lose.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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QJ -- QQx flop. nh.

Close :)

If you shove, he may be forced to call with anything since the pot would be so big. KJo is a 61% favorite VS a random hand. But how likely would it be that he could have you dominated with KQ or AJ?

I don't think it's that probable. He's been stealing with a pretty high frequency and it's more likely that he's on either a better but somewhat uncallable hand (A9/66), or a worse one. He's got a pretty huge range here. He is getting 2:1 though which is actually a little better than I'd thought.
 
spore

spore

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Chuck, you're right that +t12000 resteal would not be so good. My intention was to say it would cost you AT LEAST 24k to resteal. But now that I think about it.. yeah the 12k raise would be pointless. It's pretty much all-in re-raise or fold. Anyway, I didn't put too much thought into the raise amount, was thinking more about the strategic points.

Anywho.. like you said, he's got a huge range of possible hands. This could be anything from him waking up with a big PP, to being frustrated by resteal attempt and calling with suited connectors to a small PP since he's isolated 1 player (you), he's figuring to be a slight favorite to win against over-cards.. and feels that he's pot-commited enough to risk going in against a big PP.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

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One thing I missed.

You also don't give us much info on the state of the tourney. Are you in big money yet, or are only 2 or 3 spots paying. Both important considerations.
I know situations arise where the current tourney position is important, but whether we're ITM, on the bubble, or a few places off the money I don't really think it affects how we should be looking at this specific hand, as it's a clear shove regardless, given the other info in the OP.

I was gonna say villain had 22 or something but after your 'close' remark it's obv ~QTs, lol.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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'twas KTo and he managed to hit top 2 vs my KJ.

I still think it was a good spot considering his range, but the loss put me in push/fold mode which ultimately led to an early outing.
 
J

jeffred1111

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I shove this all night long against a lagtard and it's not even close. Worse Kings, Qs and maybe Jx hands are all in his range and against something like Asmall, we're a slight dog.
 
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