J8o in SB vs all-in

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ph_il

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New to table, so no reads on my opponent.

pokerstars Game #17900293779: Tournament #90787656, $0.10+$0.00 Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (400/800) - 2008/06/03 - 22:11:11 (ET)
Table '90787656 18' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Checkmate85 (3147 in chips)
Seat 2: akweel29 (8964 in chips)
Seat 3: ScoraJeff (6021 in chips)
Seat 4: fujilomi1 (14820 in chips)
Seat 5: Randi Brian (8818 in chips)
Seat 6: jojoe1957 (6535 in chips)
Seat 8: two7actual (22772 in chips)
Seat 9: TRM_SHRiMP (19996 in chips)
Checkmate85: posts the ante 75
akweel29: posts the ante 75
ScoraJeff: posts the ante 75
fujilomi1: posts the ante 75
Randi Brian: posts the ante 75
jojoe1957: posts the ante 75
two7actual: posts the ante 75
TRM_SHRiMP: posts the ante 75
TRM_SHRiMP: posts small blind 400
Checkmate85: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TRM_SHRiMP [8d Jh]
akweel29: folds
ScoraJeff: folds
fujilomi1: folds
Randi Brian: folds
jojoe1957: folds
two7actual: folds
TRM_SHRiMP: calls 400
...Bad move? I could've probably raised here...
Checkmate85: raises 2272 to 3072 and is all-in
TRM_SHRiMP: ???

Is this a standard call with 2:1 on my money?
 
P

p0K35

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you may be new to the tbl, but, you DO recognize the short stack? right?

I realize you don't want to give them a walk, but if you can limp/complete, and call the allin, the better move is put them allin.

You may not have any read, but tbl awareness is equally important. BAD limper, lol.
 
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ph_il

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Yeah, the limp was a mistake on my part.

But since that's been down, what about calling the all in here? Yay? Nay? Phone a friend?
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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I think I just give this up. The limp-fold will cost us a little bit of image equity, but limp-calling with J8o will probably do just as much damage.

We don't know villain's range but I'd figure a coinflip is the absolute, absolute best we could be hoping for. If we construct a range for them where they're shoving all kinds of rubbish, then we can expect them to do so again some time soon, and we can call them with a better hand. If it turns out they're actually a rock, then you dodged a bullet by folding.

FWIW, I'd probably be inclined to credit them with some kind of hand. If you've just joined the table, it means they've got no reads on you either and it's gotta be at least a little scary shoving all your chips into an unknown big stack. So, especially when they could've just taken a free flop, I'd be inclined to credit the villain with a hand that's at least above average.
 
The Shrog

The Shrog

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I agree with Oz. His hand is probably slightly above average, and since you're a new player to the table with a big stack, why wouldn't he just take a free flop with something worse then J8o. I'd fold here, even given the 2:1.
 
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wsthesis

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I call. In a turbo tourney, I take my chances he doesn't have a higher pocket pair (queens/kings/aces). The blinds will eat you alive very quickly...
 
F

feitr

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It's a 10c tourny...image doesn't mean anything at all. If you are getting 2:1 on your money (im too lazy to calculate it) then this is a call imo. vs a range like A2+,22+,QT+,K8+ you are ~38% so with 2:1 this is a +EV call and he could be shoving with ATC. Pretty marginal however as a fold isn't that bad in this situation either.

When you are in the SB vs a small stack with a hand you don't mind that much if he calls, then you should just shove and make him play for all his chips with 0 FE, while you have plenty of FE. Limping just serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever here.
 
bypacheco

bypacheco

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The correct one would be fold because in few hands you would be earning and not yet has creaks of the opponent; ;


Therefore I find fold the attitude most correct
 
dsvw56

dsvw56

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that's a ATC shove from the SB and yeah, pretty standard call getting 2:1 since losing doesnt really change anything.
 
TiltForLife

TiltForLife

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In my opinion, you should have pushed it instead of limping. In that spot, his hand is probably above average, and your cards should still be live, and since you are getting 2;1 you should call in this spot. But anyway - I'd preffer settling on your decision because if you are going to call a raise you should have open shoved it.
 
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