I played this poorly. Opinions?

[roundcat]

Basically, I was in a tournament and raised UTG with 88, failed to continuation bet, made wimpy calls on the flop and turn and finally made an ineffective move on the river.

The queen on the flop had me worried and if I'd C-bet it would have been about half my stack, thus the hesitancy. It seemed clear after the small turn and river bets that the villian didn't have a queen, though, so I should have made a move before the river (if at all). He ended up with 99 to my 88 and won the pot, knocking me out of the tournament.

How would you have played it?

Stacks:
* MP2 with 2325
* CO with 1120
* BTN with 4125
* SB with 1605
* BB with 1820
* UTG with 1315
* UTG+1 with 1760
* MP1 with 2310

Blinds:
Site: full tilt poker
* * Dealt to UTG:8♠ 8♥
* * Sklansky group 4
Preflop:
* * Hero raises to 240
* * 1 players fold.
* * MP1 calls [240]
* * 2 players fold.
* * BTN calls [240]
* * 2 players folded.
* * Total folds this street: 5
* * Potsize: 840
Flop:
* * 2♠ Q♥ 6♦
* * Hero checks
* * MP1 checks
* * BTN bets [80]
* * 2 players fold.
* * Hero calls [80]
* * MP1 calls [80]
* * Potsize: 1080
Turn:
* * 4♣
* * Hero checks
* * MP1 checks
* * BTN bets [160]
* * Hero calls [160]
* * 1 players folded.
* * Total folds this street: 1
* * Potsize: 1400
River:
* * 2♥
* * Hero bets [835, and is all in]
* * 1 players fold.
* * BTN calls [835]
Results:
* * Hero shows :
* * 8♠ 8♥
* * BTN shows :
* * 9♣ 9♠ BTN wins the pot (3,070) with two pair, Nines and Twos

Poker Hand Converter By Cardschat.com Poker Forum

 

[NineLions]

2 on the river hasn't got much use as a bluff card itself as you raising UTG with A2 isn't too logical, especially then with no c-bet on the flop. It is a good safe card though; the chances that it helped anyone else is pretty slim too.

I think you gradually got yourself into trouble. OOP 88 with 2 callers and one overcard isn't pretty, so checking the flop isn't terrible imo, but calling the minbet is trouble 'cause your not going to improve and the other players might. At best you can hope to call two more minbets and get to showdown cheap.

The minbet may have been a positional stab as much as anything. Middle player didn't bet, last player takes a weak stab, that would be the time to shove or fold, imo.


Oh, and it's probably best to leave the results out, in this case maybe right before or after your river shove.

 

[shinedown.45]

The most common mistake made in hold'em by non-seasoned poker players like most of us here, is failure to c-bet when you raise preflop.
Most pros would agree that if you intend on playing aggressively preflop, continue doing so post flop.
You seem to have been committed to the hand, so your statement of not wanting to c-bet because it would commit too much of your stack is confusing

 

[roundcat]

Thanks, NineLions. That makes me feel better about checking the flop, though I still feel generally crummy about the way I played the hand. It was a tournament that I really wanted to do well in (a satellite to the $750K guaranteed in which 25% of the field would receive seats) so I'm disappointed in myself.

I think this actually may be the first hand history I've posted! Next time I'll leave out the results.

 

[roundcat]

Ah, and with shinedown's comments I now again feel terrible about failing to continuation bet the flop.

 

[NineLions]

Well, Q high flop is pretty dry, as opposed to if it were an ace, so c-betting is an option.

The other thing is, in a ring game where I've got a full stack I'll raise 88 UTG most of the time, but in a tournament I'd with a full table and I have fewer BBs I'd be more inclined to limp them in.

 

[OzExorcist]

I think the problem with this hand is that we've actually taken three different lines.

I'm OK with raising this then c-betting that flop - it's fairly dry, we could be representing a number of strong hands. The problem, however, is that if we c-bet we're committed. If we do anything less than shove the pot's going to get too big to fold*.

So if we don't want to shove this flop, I'm also OK with just checking it. We got a couple of callers and it's going to be hard to bluff them both out of the hand.

Thing is though, after we've checked the flop I think we're pretty much done with the hand. Raising from EP then check-folding the flop isn't a good line, but it beats the slightly spewy line of calling the hand down.

The shove on the end was the biggest mistake, I think - it's just not in line with what any reasonable hand would do and if the villain can't put you on a reasonable hand, more often than not they'll figure you're bluffing and call. Which I think is exactly what happened.

* Note that position counts against us here too, and it's another reason for check-folding in my book. The chances one of our opponents has a random queen in their hand (or better) just makes it too likely that we're going to get called if we push. If we were last to act and it got checked to us, I'd be much happier pushing the flop.

 

[Lemlywinks]

I completely agree with ninelions here about limping with 88. To me, it seems a much safer play when you are involved in a game that once you lose, you are out as opposed to ring games

 

[roundcat]

Thanks for all the feedback.

You're right, OzExorcist, about shoving on the river. I guess it just felt like he didn't have the queen and I really wanted that pot.

If he'd had 77 instead of 99 I wouldn't be posting about it. Combination of bad play and bad luck, I suppose. I never mind too much when I feel I've done everything right and still lose a pot, but it's the times I question my play that really nag at me....

 

[shinedown.45]

Ah, and with shinedown's comments I now again feel terrible about failing to continuation bet the flop.

Along with what Oz and NL had mentioned though, if you are going to limp in and are not going to commit anymore to the pot if you don't hit your set, then a check/fold is in order in this spot.
Just like chess, think 3 moves ahead preflop, when you see your hole cards.

 

[Egon Towst]

I am not clear what the size of the blinds is here. Maybe I am being stupid, but I don`t see that info.

I`ll assume that the BB is 80, meaning that you began the hand with ~16x BB.

In that case, I think you fold pre-flop. You have enough chips left to play only one big pot, but not so few that you are hard-pressed yet. You can afford to wait a little longer and pick a better spot.

88 under the gun is pretty thin. The only circumstance in which it might be worth playing is if you think the table is passive and you can run over them, but to do that you must play aggressively both pre-flop and on the flop and accept that, if you are wrong or if an opponent wakes up with a monster, this will be your last hand.

 

[roundcat]

Yes, the BB was 80.

I know this is a very poor excuse, but it was the first playable hand I'd seen.

Yes, I should have either continued aggression post-flop, limped in hoping to flop my set, or folded preflop. Limping with a small PP just seems so wimpy, and if I do it UTG it feels almost like I'm sending my opponents an engraved notice that I've got a small pair. I much prefer to limp after other limpers and have had the mandate "never open limp" stamped into my brain.

 

[HeroCall]

you either gotta c-bet like 350ish which would leave you with almost 800 which if called is enough to play with, or you gotta basically check and fold. No reason to call if you didn't want to bet it out of fear in the first place IMO.

 

[tpb221]

First, I think you have to limp in with the 8's or fold. But as played, you had to c-bet the flop or plan on getting out as cheaply as possible. Sorry, but the shove was just bad. With this board and btn betting the flop and turn you were not likely to be much ahead if at all. It would be easy enough to put him on a Q, reason enough to fold.