Did I play this wrong?

southernstyle

southernstyle

Guest
This was during the cardschat FR on bodog Sunday. Now I have no read on table images... and no one has one on me...(I had just been moved to that table). Now that being said... I always respect a raise.

Blinds are $20/$40 i am in 5th position, Deucesboy is on the BB. Everybody folded from UTG to me.

My stack $1,310

southernstyle: K♠ K♥ raise $120

seat 6 and the SB fold.

Deucesboy: reraises to $360

(OK... my 1st thought here is it has to be AK, AA is all-in for sure,hmmm...what are the chances... let's bet that it's QQ or worse pocket pair.)

southernstyle: calls $280

Pot= $820

Cards Dealt: A♠ K♦ A♦

Deucesboy: checks (Heh heh.... here it comes)

southernstyle: bets $410

Deucesboy: calls $410

Pot= $1,640

Turn brings: 2♥

Deucesboy: checks (Oh yes don't worry, you know you know you're getting my chips lol.)

southernstyle: all-in $500

Deucesboy: calls $500

River brings: 3♣

Deuscesboy shows: Full House A♣ A♠ A♦ K♣ K♦

southernstyle shows: Full House K♥ K♠ K♦ A♦ A♠

So... my question is... can you get away from something like this? I feel like this is something you always play out, tell if you think I'm wrong please.:confused:
 
hott_estelle

hott_estelle

Guest
Um, considering its a freeroll, yes, definitely would have to go all the way there. I'm sure everyone would in a freeroll, possibly might be a different situation in another game with cash on the line, and well, that hand would be hard to get away from at any stake in any tourney. But even so, that would have to depend on the situation.
 
southernstyle

southernstyle

Guest
Thanks, but for the sake of the game, let's completely forget that it's a FR.
The reason being that I am working on my game... and I try not to let a free game result in looser play. I want my hand to win... the rest is numbers. As long as they make some sense to me.

My thinking here is that if I got this hand with this flop 100 times.. how often will I be up against AA or AK... very rarely it would seem.
 
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shinedown.45

shinedown.45

Legend
This was during the cardschat FR on bodog Sunday. Now I have no read on table images... and no one has one on me...(I had just been moved to that table). Now that being said... I always respect a raise.

Blinds are $20/$40 i am in 5th position, Deucesboy is on the BB. Everybody folded from UTG to me.

My stack $1,310

southernstyle: K♠ K♥ raise $120

seat 6 and the SB fold.

Deucesboy: reraises to $360

(OK... my 1st thought here is it has to be AK, AA is all-in for sure,hmmm...what are the chances... let's bet that it's QQ or worse pocket pair.)

southernstyle: calls $280

Pot= $820

Cards Dealt: A♠ K♦ A♦

Deucesboy: checks (Heh heh.... here it comes)

southernstyle: bets $410

Deucesboy: calls $410

Pot= $1,640

Turn brings: 2♥

Deucesboy: checks (Oh yes don't worry, you know you know you're getting my chips lol.)

southernstyle: all-in $500

Deucesboy: calls $500

River brings: 3♣

Deuscesboy shows: Full House A♣ A♠ A♦ K♣ K♦

southernstyle shows: Full House K♥ K♠ K♦ A♦ A♠

So... my question is... can you get away from something like this? I feel like this is something you always play out, tell if you think I'm wrong please.:confused:
My Question to you is, If you put him on AK,AA then why did you make a bet after that flop, its very hard to get away from this one so a check/fold would have been good here after the flop, mind you this may be results oriented so therefore not very helpful.
 
southernstyle

southernstyle

Guest
See that part where I think.... hmmmm what are the chances... well that's why. Like I said i had no personal traits read...only his raise. That could very well be QQ or worse... I figured play my "hunch" or "gut feeling" or the statistics.
I am a very new poker player... just wee baby... so again... I may be wrong but... I feel like online you always jam with this hand, this flop, heads up?
No? I think I'm getting a headache...:confused:
 
U Wanna Fold

U Wanna Fold

Guest
You got unlucky, period. There was no bad play there, don't let anyone tell you different. you have KK flop comes AKA you have to think you have the best hand. And since you have 2 Kings in your hand the chances that he has a K were unlikely. You just got very unlucky is all
 
A

alan1983

Visionary
With the re-raise preflop and sticking around postflop, i guess you could and did narrow it down to AA and AK.

If he hadnt re-raised preflop you could put him on an unpaired Ace but now theres a huge prob. he has you beat.

Now from there to actually trusting your analysis and laying it down, is a huge way i havent crossed yet. He prob. woulda got all my chips 2 :D
 
TheRifle

TheRifle

Guest
You haven't, I think, said what his/her stack was. Even so I think I would have been happier with an all-in pre-flop in the early stages of a FR. There's always someone around that will call, whether its with a small PP or A+ or even rags like 94. KK is a premium hand, if he has AA you are unlucky, anything else you're going to be in front.

No, you couldn't have walked away from this hand pre-flop or after a king on the flop. Sure he has an ace but is it AK, AQ or AJ all can be this strongly played here.

If your first bet is all-in pre-flop, there is a slim chance that he might not call with AKs. After all he still has to hit and doesn't know if you have AA. In the majority of cases, he will call and it he hits an ace you will be out but I think you would feel better.

(It's like playing AA and finding you have 3 or 4 limpers and you see a flop like 10h 10s 9s. I have seen so many people who can't give up the big PP and they get busted out by a limper with 3 of a kind or higher. You've got to ask a serious question pre-flop and then trust the percentages IMO.)
 
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CueMaster71

CueMaster71

Guest
You got unlucky, period. There was no bad play there, don't let anyone tell you different. you have KK flop comes AKA you have to think you have the best hand. And since you have 2 Kings in your hand the chances that he has a K were unlikely. You just got very unlucky is all


I agree with this. Against an unpaired ace you're still ahead, and no matter what anyone says on here, we KNOW how the hand played out, so it's easy to suggest laying down. I'd imagine even a world class player would have a hard time laying down that hand.

The chances of him sitting on Aces when you have Kings? I think this was in the maths page of the WPT magazine a few months ago, and if I remember correctly, it's something like 400/1 (I may be wildly wrong here, so don't rip into me!).

The chances of him having AK are less, simply due to three of the Kings being out already. I'd be going broke with this hand and putting him on maybe a pair of Queens, or even AQ (remember it's a freeroll).

The freeroll part of the equation actually makes it even less likely. If he had AA or AK you'd expect most freerollers to be going all-in preflop (at least from my experience of them). And most are also quite happy to raise and reraise with any pair, again from my experience of freerolls.

Bottom line, freak hand, you got unlucky. If you flop a full-house you are entitled to think you're going to win the hand.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
My stack $1,310

southernstyle: K♠ K♥ raise $120

seat 6 and the SB fold.

Deucesboy: reraises to $360

(OK... my 1st thought here is it has to be AK, AA is all-in for sure,hmmm...what are the chances... let's bet that it's QQ or worse pocket pair.)

southernstyle: shoves

obviously with the cards running as they did you're going broke anyway if he calls, but not shoving here pf is pretty bad and can just lead to you second-guessing yourself if an ace flops, for example. you need to remember that just because you lost a hand doesn't mean you played it incorrectly (just as winning a hand doesn't necessarily mean you played perfectly).
 
southernstyle

southernstyle

Guest
Thanks for the replies... making me feel better for sure.

BTW: His stack was $2,610
My stack was $1,310
 
bubbasbestbabe

bubbasbestbabe

Suckout Queen
You got a monster hand here. You bet it out. There are times you will get beat like you did but they are not that often. Next time you will have the winning hand.
 
A

alan1983

Visionary
i disagree with telling him there was nothing he could do.

he made a nice read but just couldnt trust it, and many of us wouldnt either but still.

An AQ or AJ wouldnt have re-raised to 9X the big blind preflop.

It could be qq or JJ but then youd have to wonder why theyd call on a flop with aces and kings against original raiser. If they had raised, then maybe, but they know his moneys going in and they want it to.

Like i said i wouldnt have laid it down either but that doesnt mean i shouldnt have. You made a good read and with time youll be able to lay down tough hands.
but anyway there was no way you wouldnt bet out at the flop, so even if you laid it down youd have had 500 chips left, and noone woulda laid it down 2 keep 500 chips in a freeroll.
 
TheRifle

TheRifle

Guest
OK, he had double your stack. I would have re-raised all-in pre-flop on knowledge I have a vg hand and on suspicion I was been bullied. In freerolls, all the time on Bodog, you see people over playing hands like A10 pre-flop simply because they have a chip advantage. With a flop like that you obviously are going to lose but generally the win percentages are in your favour against all hands except AA.
 
Vegas Cat

Vegas Cat

Guest
You said yourself you put him on maybe A,K

(OK... my 1st thought here is it has to be AK, AA is all-in for sure,hmmm...what are the chances... let's bet that it's QQ or worse pocket pair.)

southernstyle: calls $280
Pot= $820
Cards Dealt: A♠ K♦ A♦

With blinds at 20/40 it sounds like the tournament was still in the early stages.

At this point, you will have other opportunities to grow your stack, so after your 1/2 pot bet and his call, I would have checked it down and folded if he bet.

When someone reraises you and you put him potentially on A,K, that flop definitely tells you there is a really good chance he could have a better full house than you.

You were always out of position in this situation as well so continuuing to bet big into him really may have set yourself up to lose all your chips. His flat call of your half pot bet was definitely a slow play move, if he had A,Q I would think he would fold himself to your bet or reraise to determine the strength of your hand.

It is also quite possible that with his reraise he could have A,A...not everyone goes all in on A,A preflop when they have them in which case he still has the dominant hand.

What you would have wanted after calling his reraise preflop was anything other than that flop. Even one Ace, and no cards higher than a ten should have you folding because it probably paired his Ace..or one ace, one king, but not two aces would have been probably fairly safe for you to have the dominant hand. That would put you on a set of Kings with him having only a pair of aces. or two pair.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Push preflop, play that flop fast, and get your money in %100 of the time here.
Thanks, but for the sake of the game, let's completely forget that it's a FR.

You have to consider the fact that this is a freeroll as it has a direct impact on your decision. Players generally play looser in them (ie bigger hand ranges), and thus you absolutely cannot fold this. Actually, even in a buyin of just about any amount I think you have to go broke here approximately %100 of the time.

If you're check-folding this, you're playing so weak-tight that it's not even funny. Actually it would be funny.
 
Black and Grey

Black and Grey

Guest
This reminds me of Daniel Nagreanu (66) vs Gus Hansen (55)

Nagreanu bets 2900 PF w/ 66

Hansen calls w/ 55

Flop comes 9 6 5

Both flop sets

Nagreanu bets 8000

Hansen raises 20000

Nagreanu just calls

turn comes...Another 5!

Hansen now has quad 5's and Nagreanu has a FH

Hansen bets 26000

Nagreanu calls

river shows an 8

Hansen checks

Nagreanu raises 65000

Hansen says All-In (167000)

Nagreanu calls

Nagreanu realizes there are ways he could be beat but calls anyway.

It seems to me that this kind of situation just happens in poker and we can catch it sometimes, but there are times when we just see it out.

If you want to see the video it's at...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2nwoilkxZA
 
CueMaster71

CueMaster71

Guest
:eek: And there was me waiting for the punchline where Nagreanu makes a fantastic laydown.......
 
lightning36

lightning36

Visionary
This hand was going to take all your chips one way or another. If, perhaps, you had been at the table for some time and/or knew that the player was super-tight, there is a possibility that you could have bailed. Honestly, I don't think most people could or would unless the stakes were extremely high.

Is AA vs KK 400-1? I was in Las Vegas two weeks ago and had my KK run into AA twice in 13 hours. Both times I just knew the other person had AA, but I couldn't lay down the hand either time. Those two hands turned what would have been a nice overall profit into a small overall loss. :cool:
 
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