Did i get max value considering??

skull89

skull89

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considering the board, with possibilities of flush and straight, and the opponents range, I think you played well, but you last bet could be more large that the villain would pay. I don't know the guy, you have to analyse his kind of play too.
 
27DaNutz

27DaNutz

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considering the board, with possibilities of flush and straight, and the opponents range, I think you played well, but you last bet could be more large that the villain would pay. I don't know the guy, you have to analyse his kind of play too.

Well i pretty much knew he had a weak ace or some kind of drawing hand on flop (from how i have been watching him play) after he called my flop and turn bet .. i knew if he had either 2 pair or trips he would have re raised either the flop or turn bet from me... so when we get to the river it was pretty much a value bet that he was always going to call and pay me off .. if i bet 16-24k on the river i think he may have folded

like i say this is just my opinion though :) thanks for yours
 
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hffjd2000

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Play is fine but I would rather bet more than half of pot on all streets.
 
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rw11687

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Thought it was played well. I probably would have bet more than half pot on the turn, given the flush possibilities. But, thought it was a good value bet on river. Not sure he would have called with much more, but then again, he stuck around that long with a weak ace, so maybe he would have.
 
27DaNutz

27DaNutz

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Thought it was played well. I probably would have bet more than half pot on the turn, given the flush possibilities. But, thought it was a good value bet on river. Not sure he would have called with much more, but then again, he stuck around that long with a weak ace, so maybe he would have.

Yeah i thought about betting a bit more on river myself but i wanted him to pay me off with either the weak ace or (KQ,JQ,Q10) which i think the bet on the river was small enough for him to call with the range of hands i put him on :D
 
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WiZZiM

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the main source of income in poker is to fleece sheep of all of their chips, we do this by letting them have the second best hand and charging them for it.. So we should probably bet bigger on flop/turn/river to charge max for them if they have some kind of draw, or if they have a second best hand.

so ya, bet bigger on flop/turn/river basically. Like, if he has a Qx and isn't happy about it much, he's likely calling maybe 1-2 bets and folding right? but it's not like a 7-8k bet on flop will be enough to scare him off. we basically want to charge him the absolute most we can in spots where we have him with the second best hand, this will make up for the times when we actually have the second best hand and are value owning ourselves.

So to refine this idea more....

vs fish/randoms in low limit games, bet really big here on each street and don't stress if they fold they probably didn't have anything. Of course the flipside to this is to bet really small vs fish/randoms as a bluff, as they will not fold much anyways, so we are getting a cheaper price on our bluff... and yes, this is highly exploitable vs good players, but we're doing it vs randoms and fish, who are incapable of exploiting us.

vs players who seem like they are not total retards and can read bet strength then the sizing you have chosen seems great! you can also check to induce or check to feign weakness and put really weird overbets in on rivers to confuse such players.
 
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WiZZiM

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Oh and also the flop/turn bets are likely more important than the river bets here, if we bet more on the flop we can exponentially bet bigger on later streets without it "looking" like it's too big of a bet.

what i mean by this is lets say we bet 8k on flop, if he calls which he will if he has a strong second best hand, then the pot on the turn is now..

26k.
We can now bet 22k on the turn and if he calls we are now in a position to jam the river and go for his whole stack. This might seem a bit greedy, but how many times do you see randoms or fish folding when they hit "strong" pairs? the answer is rarely, when they fold they are folding because they likely were not planning on calling much more anyways.

the other thing is if he does have a draw, and we bet so small, we are just letting him get there really cheaply, this is bad not only for the chance of letting him catch up for a good price which means he makes less of a mistake and we make less money in theory, but also because we lose alot of value for all those draws that would have paid alot more to see that final river card only to miss.

Sorry for the long winded answer here, but this is a very basic situation i think which a ton of players get wrong (including myself in the past) so hopefully this all makes sense. Vs randoms or fish, bet really big, like you cannot bet big enough most of the time, the amounts of times i've bet over pot on flop/turn/river and stacked fish is incredible, give it a shot you might be suprised at what they are willing to get their stacks in with..
 
27DaNutz

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Thanks for your response WiZZiM... i pretty much agree with everything you say .. there has been plenty of times myself i have bet pretty big on all streets (75% of pot or more) and have been paid off numerous of times by doing that as it looks like a bluff type bet to most fish .. so considering the hand i posted i mean i think i could of gone for the bluff type bet and got more out of him/her in this spot .. at the time i tryed to go for value but after analyzing and replaying the hand over and over i think at the very least i should be betting 50-60% of the pot on all streets ..
 
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WiZZiM

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yeah in all honesty if i knew this guy was a fish i'd be betting twice the pot on the flop and jamming alot of turns, but i know a ton of people would disagree with this as it just seems like a horrible idea, but when you think about it, it's really not.
 
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xxMorpheusxx

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I agree about the flop sizing that was the only thing I didn't like. I was thinking 6800 or so but it seems like others think bigger would be better.

I know that if you wanna play for stacks you need to only bet 10% effective stack on flop. 1/2pot turn and it sets you up for a really natural looking river all in.
With the flush possibilities/straight I think we lose by not betting bigger when those draws are still drawing and then evaluating river to see how much we can get them to pay when they miss.

Also depends on villian. Vs passives I build the pot, vs aggros I let them bluff off their chips.
 
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