How can I play with this bad hand?

[THGE]

pokerstars
Hold' em No limit
Intellipoker Open Sunday Freeroll
18 players receive a ticket to the weekly round
52 player on tables
Blinds $3000/$6000 ante $600
All other players folded.
THGE small blind with 2d 4s and $136809 after put small blind
???? big blind with $30439 after put big blind

How could I play this hand?
Fold? Call? Raise to ....?

 

[slycbnew]

Please move this thread to the Tournament Hand Analysis.

How has the BB been playing? He's about to be blinded out, so he should be looking for an opportunity to double up. You'd love to take the blinds cheap, since your stack is good, but not great.

1. Will BB play any two cards right now? You've obviously got lousy cards yourself, so if you think he'll play ATC for his stack, I'd fold.
2. If you think he'll play tight and try to preserve the measly stack he has, raise him to 2.5x or 3x BB. This should prevent him from calling, since it's around half his stack. Note, however, it doesn't prevent him from pushing all-in - back to question 1. above.

I think there is an argument to push BB all-in right now regardless - if BB's stack was 10% of your stack or less, should probably just go all in right now - but I think 20% of your stack is at risk here. But, then again, I'm a little nitty.

 

[Dr_Dick]

With 52 players left...I'm assuming your at a full table or nearly full, so pot is $5400 in antes plus 9k in blinds, total of 14.4k.

BB being short stacked, roughly 5xBB, I don't see how BB gets away from this hand. There is way too much dead money already in the pot that if I'm BB unless I have 72 I'm pushing and calling it a day. I'm no where near the money, everyone has folded, if SB pushes I have to put him on making a move unless SB has been only showing down nut hands.

So if I'm SB with your stack size and 3k already invested, I pay 3k and hope BB makes the mistake of letting it go to the flop. If BB pushes then I fold and am glad to get away for only 3k more.

 

[slycbnew]

There is way too much dead money already in the pot that if I'm BB unless I have 72 I'm pushing and calling it a day.

I'm shoving even 72o here as BB...

 

[dcor]

one word, don't. Cause if he is smart, he will shove. Only other play would be to force him to call an all in, which really isn't an option here imo.

 

[orioles32]

You have to either take him all in or just fold. If you call, he will almost certainly shove here, and there's no way you can call that. If you shove, you can just hope he has a horrible hand and doesn't want to put his tournament life at stake.

 

[LizzyJ]

You have to either take him all in or just fold. If you call, he will almost certainly shove here, and there's no way you can call that. If you shove, you can just hope he has a horrible hand and doesn't want to put his tournament life at stake.

That's just about right. Fold or shove. Calling is NOT an option. My vote is to shove. One quick suggestion: carefully observe your opponents on your left were the SB and BB would be. By the end of the tournament you should have a good idea what type of player they are and if they can be pushed around or if they are going to fight. That type of info comes in handy when it comes to making these type of decisions at the end of the game.

 

[dg1267]

That's just about right. Fold or shove. Calling is NOT an option. My vote is to shove. One quick suggestion: carefully observe your opponents on your left were the SB and BB would be. By the end of the tournament you should have a good idea what type of player they are and if they can be pushed around or if they are going to fight. That type of info comes in handy when it comes to making these type of decisions at the end of the game.

If you're shoving here, you are seriously wanting BB to fold, and he knows that. If I'm the BB here and it's folded to the small blind and he/she shoves, then I pretty much know that shove was made with ATC. Wouldn't a 3x raise put more pressure here to fold? Just wondering.

 

[LizzyJ]

Comes down to how well do you know your opponent. Has he backed down in the past? Range of hands. Have you tried to bully him in the past? If the BB sees a 3x bet is he going to see that as a sign of weakness and push back and shove? If you push and he has a marginal hand if he is somewhat tight, he is going to let it go and wait for a better spot. If he is somewhat loose or the gambler type he is probably going to call. Also at 3xBB you are pretty much asking the BB to go all in. I would rather be the one pushing than calling.

 

[dg1267]

Comes down to how well do you know your opponent. Has he backed down in the past? Range of hands. Have you tried to bully him in the past? If the BB sees a 3x bet is he going to see that as a sign of weakness and push back and shove? If you push and he has a marginal hand if he is somewhat tight, he is going to let it go and wait for a better spot. If he is somewhat loose or the gambler type he is probably going to call. Also at 3xBB you are pretty much asking the BB to go all in. I would rather be the one pushing than calling.

True, but if we are wanting to take a shot at stealing, wouldn't it be better to only lose 3BB as opposed to 5BB. Or are you saying that we are calling every time he shoves to our 3x bet?

Edit: I'm really just playing devil's advocate, because I'm folding in this situation anyways. Because if he does make it around another orbit, I know I can have better cards than what I'm holding now.

 

[LizzyJ]

If I'm in the SB and I'm comfortable enough that he is going to fold I'm going to shove. If the BB thinks I'm bluffing and calls me, that's fine. Those cards are probably going to be live. But at this stage of the game I'm not giving anything away for free and I am going to hammer at him every chance I get.

Like I mentioned in my previous post, calling is not an option. That is by far the weakest play you can make. At that point you are asking the BB to take the pot away from you. If you make a 3-5xbb you are giving him the chance to play back at you. Let's say you make a 3-5xbb raise and he shoves, now what? You gonna fold? Now the pressure is on you to make a decision, not the BB. I would rather put the pressure on the BB for his tournament life.

 

[Yeti]

What to say... Calling is really not a clever play. The BB is likely very desperate. Shove if he's very tight, fold otherwise and just give him the pot. There'll be other spots.

 

[dg1267]

If I'm in the SB and I'm comfortable enough that he is going to fold I'm going to shove. If the BB thinks I'm bluffing and calls me, that's fine. Those cards are probably going to be live. But at this stage of the game I'm not giving anything away for free and I am going to hammer at him every chance I get.

Like I mentioned in my previous post, calling is not an option. That is by far the weakest play you can make. At that point you are asking the BB to take the pot away from you. If you make a 3-5xbb you are giving him the chance to play back at you. Let's say you make a 3-5xbb raise and he shoves, now what? You gonna fold? Now the pressure is on you to make a decision, not the BB. I would rather put the pressure on the BB for his tournament life.

I totally see what you're saying here. I'm just putting myself in the position of the BB (and I'm there all the time, mind you) and I'm really going to think more about calling/shoving if they 3x it rather than push it. If they push, my first thought is "stealing with ATC" and I'm instashoving.

If they 3bet it, my first thought is that they are trying to get me to shove, which usually means they want the action. Just saying.