Got told i played this awfully, your thoughts?

[jackaoliver]

Heads up sit and go... your thoughts would be appreciated

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, 1 Tournament, 15/30 Blinds (2 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

BB (t2,940)
Hero (SB) (t3,060)

Hero's M: 68.00

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8

, 8

Hero raises to t60, BB calls t30

Flop: (t120) J

, 7

, J

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t60, BB raises to t150, Hero raises to t300, BB calls t150

Turn: (t720) 5

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t300, BB calls t300

River: (t1,320) A

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Total pot: t1,320

Results below:
Hero had 8

, 8

(two pair, Jacks and eights).
BB had 7

, 8

(two pair, Jacks and sevens).
Outcome: Hero won t1,320

 

[BluffMeAllIn]

hiya jack, having a look there seems to me you played it quite well actually. Obviously with the 2 jacks on the board and the bb just calling your minraise preflop, your not giving him credit for a big overpair (granted kj, qj, j10 etc hands are possible, but just thinking with the 2 jacks on board he doesn't have that).

I like your agression on the flop with the 3bet, however I think given the check/raise situation. My initial thought would have been to just made a call myself (granted making a call there doesn't really let you know where you are at, and pretty much tells him you don't have the jack), so per my bracket thoughts your 3bet is a good move to let you know where you are at. The turn bet is pretty standard, and of course the check/check on the river because at that point you are not going to get another bet paid off by worse.

I'm sure there are others, more apt in the heads-up strategies that could provide some feedback as well (feel I play a good heads-up game but have never really studied full out strategy for same). I'd say congrats, well played on that hand.

edit: should mention, I can't see the suits so not sure if that is making any difference as to why the bb stayed around, but i think still well played regardless.

 

[jackaoliver]

I really want to answer this as it looked interesting but i cant understnad what you are trying to say !! Is this poker ?

what do you mean? i was told by the player that i played this bad as i was only getting value from a 7 or a pocket pair less than 7's....

 

[RamdeeBen]

3x pre at these stack depths.

Flop; Just call. Not point in raising again, you fold out all his bluffs and worse hands,so in general going to only be called by hands that beat you.

Given he checked he turn, I don't mind betting because he could still very well have 7x in this spot and some broadways/Ax. Checking back river is fine given we still have SD value. I think we can also check turn too, this is villian dependant. If you could give stats on him, this would make it a lot easier.


Also; ignore people in chat when they try berate you.


Going to move this hand to tournament hand analysis section.

 

[jackaoliver]

hiya jack, having a look there seems to me you played it quite well actually. Obviously with the 2 jacks on the board and the bb just calling your minraise preflop, your not giving him credit for a big overpair (granted kj, qj, j10 etc hands are possible, but just thinking with the 2 jacks on board he doesn't have that).

I like your agression on the flop with the 3bet, however I think given the check/raise situation. My initial thought would have been to just made a call myself (granted making a call there doesn't really let you know where you are at, and pretty much tells him you don't have the jack), so per my bracket thoughts your 3bet is a good move to let you know where you are at. The turn bet is pretty standard, and of course the check/check on the river because at that point you are not going to get another bet paid off by worse.

I'm sure there are others, more apt in the heads-up strategies that could provide some feedback as well (feel I play a good heads-up game but have never really studied full out strategy for same). I'd say congrats, well played on that hand.

edit: should mention, I can't see the suits so not sure if that is making any difference as to why the bb stayed around, but i think still well played regardless.

Cheers for the thoughts, this is my thinking throughout really, suits are rainbow on flop, and then two clubs on the turn, river is another diamond so no flush's make it there

 

[jackaoliver]

3x pre at these stack depths.

Flop; Just call. Not point in raising again, you fold out all his bluffs and worse hands,so in general going to only be called by hands that beat you.

Given he checked he turn, I don't mind betting because he could still very well have 7x in this spot and some broadways/Ax. Checking back river is fine given we still have SD value. I think we can also check turn too, this is villian dependant. If you could give stats on him, this would make it a lot easier.


Also; ignore people in chat when they try berate you.

Thanks, this is what he said, that i was not getting value from bluffs and worse hands, however if i just called surely he would be likely to double barrel and then i would not know if he had the J or not...?

and it was just against a friend on home games so we were going through hands afterwards. cheers again

 

[RamdeeBen]

Ok; well tbh he also contradicts himself with that comment because he's doing exactly the same. You both are turning your hands into bluffs when you raise this flop unless there is some sick levelling on both parts and you both are doing this for value.


This is what you want, is for him to double barrel his bluffs and worse value hands like 22-66/7x. This board is so dry; you should expect to be ahead of all his range. What would of happened had he shoved over your raise on the flop? Would you call or fold?

 

[jackaoliver]

Ok; well tbh he also contradicts himself with that comment because he's doing exactly the same. You both are turning your hands into bluffs when you raise this flop unless there is some sick levelling on both parts and you both are doing this for value.


This is what you want, is for him to double barrel his bluffs and worse value hands like 22-66/7x. This board is so dry; you should expect to be ahead of all his range. What would of happened had he shoved over your raise on the flop? Would you call or fold?

would have to fold, due to being so deep. And therefore i cant see him doing it with anything other than a J , especially after the 3 bet. and with being so deep there are still plenty of more spots!

 

[RamdeeBen]

So why are you raising the flop then? I feel you think you're raising to see where you are at in the hand? That sort of thought process usually isn't good and especially more so on this type of board, you should be very happy with your hand and given he does raise this type of board it's very unlikely he has Jx in his range ever.

 

[jackaoliver]

Ok, as you say i think i am raising to get value, maybe even from two overs like AQ/AK, and maybe A10, but then would he be 3 betting pre with these hands..?

 

[RamdeeBen]

Well if you really was raising for value here, then folding to a shove would of been bad if you think he's capable of bluff raising all-in or with worse value hands.(7x,22-66) It brings us back to the whole raising part though given board texture. There's just so many worse/bluff hands he has here that raising doesn't accomplish anything unless there is history between you both where he has bluffed or stacked of with worse hands on these boards but in general this is unlikely so your best line is going to always just to call his raise and let him bluff/value bet worse on the turn/river.

And yeah in general he would 3 betting those hands you said pre flop.

 

[dj11]

As I see it, you played the hand better than he did. In which case, why are you listening to someone who doesn't play as well as you?????

It does appear that perhaps that villain was looking to put you on tilt. Did it work?

 

[BluffMeAllIn]

I'm sure there are others, more apt in the heads-up strategies that could provide some feedback as well (feel I play a good heads-up game but have never really studied full out strategy for same).

Per my message regarding others, from my time having reviewed posts etc ram would be who I was thinking on by "others". Like the feedback Ram, helps me out with my thinking as well.

 

[jackaoliver]

As I see it, you played the hand better than he did. In which case, why are you listening to someone who doesn't play as well as you?????

It does appear that perhaps that villain was looking to put you on tilt. Did it work?

I may of played it better although as people have stated I could of played it better, however I don't think you can rate someone on one hand, no it didn't put me on tilt. I just think going through hands will help in my overall game !

 

[jackaoliver]

Well if you really was raising for value here, then folding to a shove would of been bad if you think he's capable of bluff raising all-in or with worse value hands.(7x,22-66) It brings us back to the whole raising part though given board texture. There's just so many worse/bluff hands he has here that raising doesn't accomplish anything unless there is history between you both where he has bluffed or stacked of with worse hands on these boards but in general this is unlikely so your best line is going to always just to call his raise and let him bluff/value bet worse on the turn/river.

And yeah in general he would 3 betting those hands you said pre flop.

OK cheers, I understand what you are saying and I think this has helped me!!

 

[skrsh76]

So why are you raising the flop then? I feel you think you're raising to see where you are at in the hand? That sort of thought process usually isn't good and especially more so on this type of board, you should be very happy with your hand and given he does raise this type of board it's very unlikely he has Jx in his range ever.

In these lines how should the Villan have played to win the pot?

 

[RamdeeBen]

In these lines how should the Villan have played to win the pot?

He shouldn't be trying to win the pot on the flop. He should of just taken a x/c line on the flop.

 

[kevbot]

Instead of raising on the flop I would just call his raise and then probably check/call the rest of the way. However since you did choose the route of raising the flop, it was good that you continued the aggression on the turn which allowed you to get to the river and just check it down.