Good raise?

[ph_il]

I find myself having a little problem here because I usually dont make it this deep into a tournament. My main concern is my raise in this particular hand. Did I over raise it or could I have gotten more value with a smaller raise? Maybe a RR of 3200. I know Im already calling an all in and Im pushing on the flop if an A doesnt hit. I should mention I have been playing very TAG. Also, notice that my RR commits me to so, there was very little chance that I would fold to a flop bet if an A didnt show, nor would I fold to a push PF. I wonder if the OR took note of this...

full tilt poker Game #4171247112: The Ferguson (31109767) Table 61 - 1000/2000 Ante 250 - No Limit Hold'em - 4:56:59 ET - 2007/11/14
Seat 1: rocker4life35 (121 606)
Seat 3: WetCatz (68 046)
Seat 4: Lugnut05 (150 720)
Seat 5: lechatgris (66 876)
Seat 6: Philthy (81 614)
Seat 7: Err-eek (177 186)
Seat 8: Saphira II (46 608)
Seat 9: Couch Cushions (90 696)
rocker4life35 antes 250
WetCatz antes 250
Lugnut05 antes 250
lechatgris antes 250
Philthy antes 250
Err-eek antes 250
Saphira II antes 250
Couch Cushions antes 250
Err-eek posts the small blind of 1,000
Saphira II posts the big blind of 2,000
The button is in seat #6

Holecards:
Dealt to Philthy [

]
rocker4life35: nice
Couch Cushions has 15 seconds left to act
Couch Cushions folds
rocker4life35 folds
WetCatz folds
Lugnut05 raises to 7 500
[new to the table, havent seen many hands from this person]
lechatgris calls 7 500
[Makes pretty loose calls PF. Has already lost half of stacking calling with a Qh flush draw. I can see this person calling here with hands as bad as QJ or 10J]
Philthy has 15 seconds left to act
Philthy raises to 40 000

 

[Ursala]

you TAG boys have just simply got to let up.
imho

 

[pigpen02]

I think a 20,000 raise is more in line with the chip stacks and pot. Lechatgris, being loose, could have a strong ace. He couldn't flat call a 40,000 raise (likely to go all in) but could call a 20,000. This would allow you to see if an ace comes on the flop and preserve 3/4 of your stack.

 

[ph_il]

you TAG boys have just simply got to let up.
imho

explain, please.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

If you're going to raise half your stack here you really may as well just shove.

I think the optimal raisse sizing lies somewhere between your 40k and pigpen's 20k. ~30k is enough to effectively commit the shortstack to shoving if he wants to continue in the hand, and you're not effectively commiting your stack to the pot, as you risk doing by raising half your stack.

There's 18.5k in the pot and you're raising 32.5k on top, it just seems a little excessive.

 

[switch0723]

if i was in your position here, i wouldnt want to re raise as it shows strength. I would flat call, then if ace hits fold, if the board pairs jacks or higher, put in a bet to see where you stand and most likely fold to a re raise, to a dangerous baord eg 9,10,j, once again bet to try and take it down. With those out of the way if the flop comes any other way you have to like your chances and just flat call c bet on the non scary board, try to extract max. I beleive this way will get you more in the long run rather than re raising and risk either them both folding or someone calling with an ace and hitting it

 

[skoldpadda]

I repop to 23-25K about 3x initial bet.

 

[NineLions]

And to add to what DM said, if you've been really tight, a shove may kill all the action, though maybe not from the new player.

 

[jeffred1111]

if i was in your position here, i wouldnt want to re raise as it shows strength. I would flat call, then if ace hits fold, if the board pairs jacks or higher, put in a bet to see where you stand and most likely fold to a re raise, to a dangerous baord eg 9,10,j, once again bet to try and take it down. With those out of the way if the flop comes any other way you have to like your chances and just flat call c bet on the non scary board, try to extract max. I beleive this way will get you more in the long run rather than re raising and risk either them both folding or someone calling with an ace and hitting it

NO NO NO NADA NIET NON !

Seriously, Philty wants to get it AI preflop with this and get called by an Ace or by other crappy holdings since he won't have to make any decision postflop (where he could very well screwup and fold the best hand or put money in behind). In this situation, he is in fron 99% of the time, he must thus raise and if he takes it down, good he made some chips the easy way, if he gets reppoped, even better, he can call without thinking twice about it.

What if the board comes out 78T and your c-bet gets repopped AI ? Do you call the donk who most likely had AT or maybe 78, or 77, or 88, or TT or 9J because we let him in cheap ? What if the board comes out monochrome with none of the two suits we hold ?

What ? WHAT ?

 

[switch0723]

NO NO NO NADA NIET NON !

Seriously, Philty wants to get it AI preflop with this and get called by an Ace or by other crappy holdings since he won't have to make any decision postflop (where he could very well screwup and fold the best hand or put money in behind). In this situation, he is in fron 99% of the time, he must thus raise and if he takes it down, good he made some chips the easy way, if he gets reppoped, even better, he can call without thinking twice about it.

What if the board comes out 78T and your c-bet gets repopped AI ? Do you call the donk who most likely had AT or maybe 78, or 77, or 88, or TT or 9J because we let him in cheap ? What if the board comes out monochrome with none of the two suits we hold ?

What ? WHAT ?

then i guess the answer would be RAISE DAMMIT, forget my advice, make life easy for yourself and just put it all in pre flop

 

[Ursala]

explain, please.

Think Meta game : )

 

[Cheetah]

I would not raise more than 33,438 which is half the small stack. The reason is that if the big stack calls the raise, and the small stack re-raises, I would want to be able to re-raise all-in. If we bet more than that amount, the small stack's re-raise closes the betting.

I think 25-30k would be a compromise between us wanting to get called, and us wanting the small stack to re-raise all-in and hopefully squeeze the big stack.