Getting stacked...

ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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How do we get the most out of this hand? This is the second hand into a $4.40 180-seater. I really wanted the 8 to drop instead of the king so he wouldn't be scared off of a pair of queens, but of course things don't always go the way you planned...

pokerstars Game #8022010958: Tournament #40974883, $4.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2007/01/19 - 17:31:12 (ET)
Table '40974883 9' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Chuck N'Luck (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: Muji4 (1490 in chips)
Seat 3: ChuckTs (1480 in chips)
Seat 4: dodooltalah (1530 in chips)
Seat 5: effectief (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: Floppr (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: LOWMETS (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: BSUfan41 (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: Razmot95 (1500 in chips)
ChuckTs: posts small blind 10
dodooltalah: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ChuckTs [Jh Td]
effectief: folds
Floppr: calls 20
LOWMETS: folds
BSUfan41: folds
Razmot95: calls 20
Chuck N'Luck: folds
Muji4: folds
ChuckTs: calls 10
dodooltalah: checks
*** FLOP *** [Qc 9h 7s]
ChuckTs: checks
dodooltalah: bets 20
Floppr: folds
Razmot95: folds
ChuckTs: calls 20
*** TURN *** [Qc 9h 7s] [Kh] (pot = 120)
ChuckTs:......
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

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Well, he bet the flop (albeit a meager bet) into a number of players, so we can assume that he hit the flop, most likely with a pair of 9s or Qs. I think that's more likely than a straight draw, so I probably just go ahead and bet here. And if he had a straight draw like KT or KJ, he just hit his K, so betting seems good because he's likely to call and he may raise.

If we check and he has a pair of 9s or Qs, I think there's a good chance he checks behind, so we're only getting one street of value. Even if he chooses to bet, judging by his flop bet, he's probably going to underbet the pot again. If you then check-raise him, he obtains a lot of information about your strength pretty cheaply and it makes it easier for him to get away from the hand here or on the river.

So I probably just bet 60-80 here and sob when he folds.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Agreed, combu. We can't check-raise here because all that will do is scare anybody with a queen or 9 away, and will also give a free card to a possible backdoor draw.

I led for 90 and he called. YEEEEHAWWWW big pot... :/

River comes 5h and I'm first to act...(pot's at 300)
 
joosebuck

joosebuck

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i would value bet between 90-120 again, or depending on PT stats check to him and let him bet?
 
zebranky

zebranky

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bet value

value bet is all you can get, so yeah, bet around 1/3 - 1/2 pot. Any bigger and he has to put you on the K or the straight, and he'll fold (unless he flopped 2 pair). My guess from his bet is a 9, but his range is just too large at this stage.

Besides, knowing he called your bet, I'm going to put him on T9 or J9 - pair and draw. It doesn't even make sense for a lonely Q to call.
 
stormswa

stormswa

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huh

Chuck you are too good for this, you know you have to value bet this. Im guessing your posting this to help someone that dosent know what to do because im sure you know exactly what to do.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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I bet 200, he folds.

I posted this because I generally have trouble getting stacked in the early stages of a tourney with hands unless I run into KK with AA or similar preflop hands. I just don't know how to get inside poor players' heads and get them to stack me.

I'm thinking about the article that mischman recently quoted from pocket5s about just open raising all in with such strong hands against weaker players because often enough they will stack you with garbage.

I mean what if I just open push the turn? KQ, Q9, K9 or maybe some weird hands like J9h and other hands might call all in to see the river. It surprises me what people will call with a draw sometimes. Yes, a lone 9 or queen will probably fold, but the times we get stacked with the other hands more than makes up for it....
 
Stefanicov

Stefanicov

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as to your question of how to get stacked early in a tourny my advice is to always be betting amounts when you have the hnd tht makes them feel like they are playing for all their chips even if they arnt in reality. youd be amazed how many times youll get put all in pre flop by k 10 a 4 q 10 and such:)
 
stormswa

stormswa

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why

why are you trying to get it all in? why not just win small to average sized pots? What is this crazy fasination with trying to get all your chips in the middle and at risk. I dont know I try never ever to have my tourney life at risk unless im pretty sure im winning the pot.


wouldnt it be better to value bet him all the way and take the chips from him calling weak then trying to get them all in on a 60/40 or something like that.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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why are you trying to get it all in? why not just win small to average sized pots? What is this crazy fasination with trying to get all your chips in the middle and at risk. I dont know I try never ever to have my tourney life at risk unless im pretty sure im winning the pot.

I'd like to get stacked with the nuts. Simple and plain; why wouldn't you want to double up in a tourney? I want to have the biggest stack possible in a tournament with 180 entrants and want to break away from the pack so that I can have an advantage when the blinds are reaching a point where the average player is like 15BBs deep. I don't think I need to elaborate why a bigger stack is better in a tournament?

wouldnt it be better to value bet him all the way and take the chips from him calling weak then trying to get them all in on a 60/40 or something like that.

Huh? Please elaborate; I'm not sure I get what you mean.
 
stormswa

stormswa

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K

I'd like to get stacked with the nuts. Simple and plain; why wouldn't you want to double up in a tourney? I want to have the biggest stack possible in a tournament with 180 entrants and want to break away from the pack so that I can have an advantage when the blinds are reaching a point where the average player is like 15BBs deep. I don't think I need to elaborate why a bigger stack is better in a tournament?



Huh? Please elaborate; I'm not sure I get what you mean.


I must of misunderstood you, I basically got that you just wanted to get them all in with someone. Not you wanted to get them all in with the nuts, of course you want to do that. Alot of tourney players lately I have come in contact with watch too much TV and just want to get into big races early which I just think is terrible. I never want to have my tourney life at risk and really im not all in that often in a tourney until we get really deep.

Like I said I took what you said wrong way Chuck.
 
zebranky

zebranky

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its been really long week for me, trying to accumulate some monies for some trips so im confusing everyone latley :0
]
know the feeling - the LA poker classic starts on Thursday and I'm planning on playing, only I've watched my game get worse day by day for the last couple of weeks...
 
Stefanicov

Stefanicov

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I'd like to get stacked with the nuts. Simple and plain; why wouldn't you want to double up in a tourney? I want to have the biggest stack possible in a tournament with 180 entrants and want to break away from the pack so that I can have an advantage when the blinds are reaching a point where the average player is like 15BBs deep. I don't think I need to elaborate why a bigger stack is better in a tournament?



Huh? Please elaborate; I'm not sure I get what you mean.


im not talkin bout donk play if i know i am a big favourite 70 30 better then i am looking to get all the chips in but you can also build with small average pots. but i always want to build a big stack early as i prefer to have throwaround chips for later which suits my style of play.
 
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