$Freeroll NLHE MTT: Flopping the nuts: How to extract value

[nabmom]

This is a hand from today's CC freeroll. My hat is tipped to everyone for a great game and such solid play.

The question though, is a general one about how to extract maximum value in this lucky situation. I show how I play the flop/turn/river. How would you play this postflop?

Full Tilt - 30/60 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: 4,180.00
UTG+1: 1,570.00
MP: 872.00
MP+1: 1,209.00
CO: 1,460.00
Hero (BTN): 2,350.00
SB: 3,879.00
BB: 1,110.00

SB posts SB 30.00, BB posts BB 60.00

Pre Flop: (90.00) Hero has 9♣ 9♠

fold, fold, MP raises to 120.00, fold, fold, Hero calls 120.00, SB calls 90.00, fold

Flop: (420.00, 3 players) 9♦ 7♥ 7♠
SB checks, MP checks, Hero checks

Turn: (420.00, 3 players) 5♣
SB bets 60.00, MP calls 60.00, Hero raises to 120.00, fold, MP calls 60.00

River: (720.00, 2 players) Q♣
MP checks, Hero bets 180.00, fold

 

[PNJs_dad]

I think that checking the flop was bad. I think make a small feeler type bet kinda like you may do if you were to try and take an unwanted pot. But make it smallish...say 100-120. If that is called and if it's checked to you on the turn(no matter if one or both players come along) do some acting and let the timer go a little and check behind. Hopefully this will induce a bluff by your opponents on the river that you'll be able to raise. If not then value bet small....around 1/3 of the pot.

 

[ManicLombax]

KC talks about the line PNJ is talking about here in another thread:

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/tournament-poker-59/disguising-your-hand-bluff-187564/

I think it's a pretty good idea, particularly if you're not worried about any draws, which clearly you're not here. I'd bet a little bigger than PNJ is suggesting on the river though. If they've got any kind of bluff catcher hand, they're probably just as likely to call a bet of 2/3 pot or even full pot.

Then again this is a freeroll so your opponent may not be paying attention to any of this or even remember on the river what streets you bet.

 

[MrEpic94]

I dont hate your line here.

Just make the raise on the turn to 180/200 and then bet about 50% of the pot on the river.

 

[PNJs_dad]

KC talks about the line PNJ is talking about here in another thread:

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/tournament-poker-59/disguising-your-hand-bluff-187564/

I think it's a pretty good idea, particularly if you're not worried about any draws, which clearly you're not here. I'd bet a little bigger than PNJ is suggesting on the river though. If they've got any kind of bluff catcher hand, they're probably just as likely to call a bet of 2/3 pot or even full pot.

Then again this is a freeroll so your opponent may not be paying attention to any of this or even remember on the river what streets you bet.

Sure betting 2/3 to pot on the river may be +EV but sometimes the +EV stuff I think is over-rated. And yes, you may get more chips over the course of 100 tourney situations similar to this but I'm not playing them all at once. I play just one at a time and I want chips and if you want your opponents to call you have to keep the bets small. Plus small bets sometimes convince your opponent your weak and cause your opponent to raise you. And I think this negates the EV that you may lose by betting more.

 

[MrEpic94]

Sure betting 2/3 to pot on the river may be +EV but sometimes the +EV stuff I think is over-rated. And yes, you may get more chips over the course of 100 tourney situations similar to this but I'm not playing them all at once. I play just one at a time and I want chips and if you want your opponents to call you have to keep the bets small. Plus small bets sometimes convince your opponent your weak and cause your opponent to raise you. And I think this negates the EV that you may lose by betting more.

whaaaaaaaaaat?

EDIT; I dont quite understand this. Dumb it down a bit please sir

 

[PNJs_dad]

A lot of players end up betting more when they value bet because they believe it's +EV(expected value). And yes you have to be called less to make this play technically correct over the long run. I just believe you have to value bet what you think will be called in every situation. If the pot is 1300 yes technically if you value-bet 1000 you would have to be called less over the long run to end up making move chips overall. BUT, it does your stack no good to bet that much if you don't think you will be called. I will and have bet that much as a V-bet before but only because I thought that is how much my opponent would call.

 

[rllngn]

I would have made a bet on the flop, not to big but to show maybe you are playing 2 overs. That way if you do check on the turn the bet on the river may not give away your hand. If no one hit nothing there is not much you can do unless you are playing against someone who loves to bet then I might play it a little different.

 

[MrEpic94]

A lot of players end up betting more when they value bet because they believe it's +EV(expected value). And yes you have to be called less to make this play technically correct over the long run. I just believe you have to value bet what you think will be called in every situation. If the pot is 1300 yes technically if you value-bet 1000 you would have to be called less over the long run to end up making move chips overall. BUT, it does your stack no good to bet that much if you don't think you will be called. I will and have bet that much as a V-bet before but only because I thought that is how much my opponent would call.

the only problem with this is how often are you betting what you think is the maximum value bet when really villian will call a much larger value bet. Doesnt this ofset the value you gain from a few extra smaller bets being called?