$Freeroll NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: QQ UTG - with callers and all in behind ?

[vegasjj]

partypoker - $0+$0|125/250 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 5,860 (VPIP: 22.36, PFR: 17.72, 3Bet Preflop: 4.00, hands: 165)
BTN: 3,390 (VPIP: 15.12, PFR: 11.76, 3Bet Preflop: 6.45, Hands: 86)
SB: 8,022 (VPIP: 24.19, PFR: 12.77, 3Bet Preflop: 3.59, Hands: 729)
BB: 4,715 (VPIP: 19.93, PFR: 15.73, 3Bet Preflop: 2.84, Hands: 610)
Hero (UTG): 9,240
UTG+1: 7,601 (VPIP: 15.90, PFR: 7.11, 3Bet Preflop: 3.13, Hands: 486)
MP: 9,972 (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 11.49, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 303)
MP+1: 9,295 (VPIP: 26.74, PFR: 14.63, 3Bet Preflop: 4.55, Hands: 86)

8 players post ante of 25, SB posts SB 125, BB posts BB 250

Pre Flop: (pot: 575) Hero has Q:heart: Q:spade:

Hero raises to 500, fold, MP calls 500, MP+1 calls 500, fold, BTN raises to 3,365 and is all-in,

 

[PCK]

Re-shove,you cant fold or call with MP+1 still in the pot

 

[vegasjj]

Some very important info I missed to include in OP

This is a VERY VALUABLE freeroll

About 50 people in it - with a prize pool of $300 value
($100 to places 2-7 and a $200 ticket to winner)

 

[horizon12]

Some very important info I missed to include in OP

This is a VERY VALUABLE freeroll

About 50 people in it - with a prize pool of $300 value
($100 to places 2-7 and a $200 ticket to winner)

It changes nothing , when BTN all-in, you need isolate all callers, that they only not call, so better shove here, pot already big...

 

[Ambur]

Well i am struggling which play is more correct here: usually App 80% i will bet/shove pre (well MP could cold call Axs, some mediocre connectors and some percent of the time made hands - he has quite polarized range)! Since button is coming over the top i would consider to flat it since BTN is low stack (M:5,9) sometimes if i have certain read (MP) i will flat/x pre but this hand is pretty much bottom range of mine just to mix it up a bit! Hero is not ultra deep so flating really means you have to make cbet whatever the flop comes!

Nah i will most of the time still bet/jam it in pre if i do not have certain reads only stats! - Since i do not want play multiway pot actually! But if i really think that MP could fold hands like 99,TT,JJ or some mediocre drawing hands then just flat/x to mix it up x% of the time!

 

[vegasjj]

Re-shove,you cant fold or call with MP+1 still in the pot

MP, MP+1 and the shove player are all alive in the pot!

 

[vegasjj]

I was thinking some of the following:

-If I call or all-in it is likely the pot size will invite more people in the pot
-QQ may be very weak in a 4 handed pot
-The MP and MP+1 can take me out
-None of the players involved are really LAG
-The Button is pretty tight player - he may easily have a monster (AA, KK) I sure do not want to donate

I guess just overall I felt there is a lot of reasons to be scared...

Thoughts please?

 

[Gothams Son]

I am still saying shove here with the rest of the guys. No money involved, and there is no guarantee that the other two will call, if you want to be one of the 2-7 sometimes you gotta take these chances.

 

[Ambur]

I was thinking some of the following:

-If I call or all-in it is likely the pot size will invite more people in the pot
The idea of going AI should narrow the field...not invite them in! If you call the possibility they will come along would be greater, so moving AI is always safer especially when your goal is to narrow field

-QQ may be very weak in a 4 handed pot
True strong pairs lose value multiway pot, thats why you should bet/shove preflop most of the time..etc

-The MP and MP+1 can take me out
Ofcourse they have that kind of ability but you really should not worry about this, since they are not really tight player's, they are semi-loose players who want to see flop cheap, do not give MP's that chance.

-None of the players involved are really LAG

Given stats i quess MP's both are weak LAG player's more like semi loose - who just like to limp decent x% of their range to see flop cheaply (most of the time) etc..

-The Button is pretty tight player - he may easily have a monster (AA, KK) I sure do not want to donate

This is not donating it is poker and you really should playing this hand since QQ is really strong hand, try just narrow the field most of the time if you feel unconfort of playing it postflop when scared cards are involved. Furthermore button tend to be very tight given info - I assume he is solid TAG player who can easily have here a real hand. But he is on push/shove since his stack does not allow him to just flat most of his range. (wait a minute you still can bet/fold given dynamics, but then this will go games are dead thread insta).

I guess just overall I felt there is a lot of reasons to be scared...

Thoughts please?

Do not be scared (this is weakness and people will attack when u are weak) Just close your eyes

Spoiler

and just move your chips in like a boss

 

[DaveE]

It changes nothing , when BTN all-in, you need isolate all callers, that they only not call, so better shove here, pot already big...

Agreed...usually you're good.

 

[vegasjj]

All of you are right -
Big sigh - I just have me to kick myself.
Thanks very much for the posts - I trust it will encourage me to make the right decision in a similar situation next time.
THANK YOU! - Special thanks to Ambur

Here is what happened: (cry)

partypoker - $0+$0|125/250 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 5,860 (VPIP: 22.36, PFR: 17.72, 3Bet Preflop: 4.00, Hands: 165)
BTN: 3,390 (VPIP: 15.12, PFR: 11.76, 3Bet Preflop: 6.45, Hands: 86)
SB: 8,022 (VPIP: 24.19, PFR: 12.77, 3Bet Preflop: 3.59, Hands: 729)
BB: 4,715 (VPIP: 19.93, PFR: 15.73, 3Bet Preflop: 2.84, Hands: 610)
Hero (UTG): 9,240
UTG+1: 7,601 (VPIP: 15.90, PFR: 7.11, 3Bet Preflop: 3.13, Hands: 486)
MP: 9,972 (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 11.49, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 303)
MP+1: 9,295 (VPIP: 26.74, PFR: 14.63, 3Bet Preflop: 4.55, Hands: 86)

8 players post ante of 25, SB posts SB 125, BB posts BB 250

Pre Flop: (pot: 575) Hero has Q:heart: Q:spade:

Hero raises to 500, fold, MP calls 500, MP+1 calls 500, fold, BTN raises to 3,365 and is all-in, fold, fold, fold, fold, MP+1 calls 2,865

Flop: (8,305, 2 players) 4:heart: 8:club: Q:club:

Turn: (8,305, 2 players) 7:heart:

River: (8,305, 2 players) 5:spade:

MP+1 shows Q:diamond: A:spade: (One Pair, Queens)
(Pre 25%, Flop 86%, Turn 93%)
BTN shows A:diamond: K:heart: (High Card, Ace)
(Pre 75%, Flop 14%, Turn 7%)
MP+1 wins 8,305

 

[horizon12]

Seriously, you fold QQ ? Yes, buttong tight, but he have only 12bb, him range here 55+ ATs+ AQo+, also sometime KJo+ KQs... other players who only calls range very wide like pairs, suited connectors and other top 20% range. Also the main factors for shove this freeroll, pot already big around 50% of your stack, QQ top our range, need isolate all callers and very often will have someone AA or KK, so that your fold was absurd.

 

[atlantafalcons0]

The min raise preflop is terrible.

Since you did that, you got many callers before it got to the button who has 15bb's and is probably squeezing with lots of hands to get dead money.

Folding the queens after is just as bad as min raising pre.

I would have raised 2.2-2.5 bb's pre.

I would not have folded to the player who 3bets preflop the most at the table.

 

[Ambur]

All of you are right -
Big sigh - I just have me to kick myself.
Thanks very much for the posts - I trust it will encourage me to make the right decision in a similar situation next time.
THANK YOU! - Special thanks to Ambur

Here is what happened: (cry)

I cut result part out since it does not matter what is the result, i explain it a little bit on my post!

Some further thought about this for initial poster:
-First of all we should not be result oriented! For example if we choose to make a move and it is right move most of the time and we know it why, then we long term gain a profit!
- If we make right decision and still end up losing this paricular hand and we know that we made right decision, we can say it is variance and probably this is help us avoid tilt! (Since we know why we lost)
-But if we end up frustrated and confused about whole the situation and end up losing, then we can easily go on tilt which means we lose ability to make our right decision overall and most of the time we make emotional decisions and emotion tend to disturb logical thinking! That's why is good to analyse your game and try to avoid emotions to get involved!
-Furthermore, if you want to make most of the time good decision's i suggest to learn more game dynamics (reading books etc) and based on that knowledge make your decisions. In a mean time should work on your mental muscle - since it is as important as the knowledge itself. imo

 

[lilu80]

Ofc with QQ here I am Al. Fold here is very bad!

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

I skipped past your 3rd post where you posted the results, because I don't want to be results oriented (at least not before I make my analysis). I would personally raise a little more preflop like 2.3-2.5x but the min raise is not horrible like someone else suggested.

Once you get 2 flatters and a short stack jam there is no other reasonable move besides re-shoving to isolate the short stack. actually, his range is almost irrelevant to our decision since we really cannot fold in this spot. So what is better, flatting, raising or jamming?

jamming is clearly the best play because the other 2 players who have you covered will nearly always fold (if they had QQ beat you would have heard from them already). then you've got dead money to sweeten the pot for the times you are flipping (which will be quite often).

The above is how I would play this hand in a $1,000 tourney. it only becomes even more correct in a freeroll when the short stack can have an even wider range than "normal".

 

[bremensha]

Min raise is neither bad nor good. It is just a matter of style. As long you are allways making min bids you have to do it here too.

Making a min raise , getting some callers and a small stack going all in is like XMAS. You should now try to get the most of the other callers. Flat call and afterwards big C-bets if no ace or king appears.