$Freeroll NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: Opponent Min Bets Postflop BvB, Hero Shoves River, Opinion?

[Scrover]

$Freeroll NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: Opponent Min Bets Postflop BvB, Hero Shoves River, Opinion?

This hand was from the Cardschat Satellite where I ended up winning and getting a $215 ticket into the $250,000 Guarantee. This was one of those beautiful hands that got me into it and pumped up. At the time, it was three away from the money and I was being the table captain. I would raise a lot preflop (about a third of the hands which is normal for me in Cardschat Freerolls) and not usually call.

What do you think about the shove in the end considering my thought process?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 60/120 Blinds 15 Ante (8 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

Hero (BB) (t5,461)
UTG (t380)
UTG+1 (t4,962)
MP1 (t2,578)
MP2 (t1,930)
CO (t7,685)
Button (t1,150)
SB (t2,506)

Hero's M: 18.20

Preflop: Hero is BB with 10h, 4d
6 folds, SB calls t60, Hero checks

I checked instead of raised because I know that people would expect me to raise this, therefore they could limp with a huge hand.

Flop: (t360) 3d, Qd, Ah (2 players)
SB bets t120, Hero calls t120

I called the flop not because it was so cheap, I called to float in position and hopefully take away the pot on the turn or river. If a card came that I could bluff at and represent, then I'd do it.

Turn: (t600) 3c (2 players)
SB bets t120, Hero calls t120

The turn brings a three. It's a great card to bluff at in my perspective because I look weak by calling the flop. If I called the turn, I could just raise the river because it's so unlikely opponent has a three. Most three's would have folded preflop and gave me a walk.


River: (t840) Js (2 players)
SB bets t120, Hero raises to t5,086 (All-In), 1 fold

I decide to jam the river because I felt that opponent wanted to bet more, meaning that they would likely have had something. Also, people know that when I call I have something. I felt like my opponent can't call me with many hands. My opponent tanked for a while and almost went into their timebank and folded. I believed opponent had a hand like AQ (if the tank was legitimate) after my shove. Opponent also had 2,000 behind.


Total pot: t1,080

Results:
Hero didn't show 10h, 4d (one pair, threes).
Outcome: Hero won t1,080

 

[Poker Orifice]

you seriously think anyone would ever fold Top2 vs. you in that spot?
that's about as crazy as "I thought he was 4bet bluffing (on ~20bb's) & he'd fold to a 5-bet"

 

[WiZZiM]

FPS and pure spew.

thought process is all over the place here.

Keep the bluffing to small pots, here we risk half our stack for a $500 chip gain, in a spot where we "think he has something" in a freeroll, no where near close to the money at this stage of game, so we can't use pressure against him.

You are applying your thoughts to others, what you should be doing is getting in someone elses head/game, and trying to make plays that best exploit that, in small pots. but most of the time in micro limits and in freerolls, our plays are boring, he should be coming into pots, and betting for thin value often postflop, because people call too much.

So he limps here, raise preflop and c-bet the flop. now that's a tried and tested winning play that requires little to no thought on your part. I actually don't mind you calling this flop and if he checks betting the turn, but once he bets again, it doesnt fit in with our postflop plan, so just bail. I think you were deserate to "make a play" or to "bluff this guy, i don't believe you have anything", that it blinded your thought process/logical thinking in this spot.

having said that, i've made similar plays in the past, i've posted similar hands and gotten feedback or thought to myself afterward "what are you doing?", so learn from this. ALso, freerolls are a great place to try out plays like this, so go for it if it helps you learn/improve and keep posting hands with thought process, it's great for learning.

 

[Scrover]

you seriously think anyone would ever fold Top2 vs. you in that spot?
that's about as crazy as "I thought he was 4bet bluffing (on ~20bb's) & he'd fold to a 5-bet"

I actually believe someone would fold top two on a paired board like that to me. I've done it before on a similar board with a similar image and villian (again in the small blind) folded face up to me. Name me one hand I could be realistically value betting there that couldn't beat top two pair. AJ is about the only hand I can think of that would do that for value. With top pair, you'd just call the river praying you're good and with a hand like AJ, most people would raise the river. Any other hands and you've been beaten. So I've almost polarized myself.

I felt he had something, but not the absolute smashing and beautiful nuts on this board. If they had the nuts or something good (like the AQ) and I probably think I shouldn't have put him on AQ, but maybe AK, chances are they would have checked to me and let me bet. The only real hand that could call the shove with fistpump joy would be KT and people can call with AJ.

And just to clear up the confusion people might have, I was raising a lot preflop, but solid postflop with a few exceptions. I don't raise a bet postflop a lot, but take stabs at pots when it looks like there is no interest.

 

[Poker Orifice]

And just to clear up the confusion people might have, I was raising a lot preflop, but solid postflop with a few exceptions. I don't raise a bet postflop a lot, but take stabs at pots when it looks like there is no interest.

like opening 42s from utg & cbetting over 1/2 pot on a QQ4 into a 20bb stack holding AQ?

I doubted the guy could/would fold even TP there (nevermind AQ wtf?) if they'd been watching you play at all (vpip 65%, LP steals 90% in early levels)... open-limping in when not raising, etc. etc. Obv. its cuz of the huge edge I'm guessing.

wizzim posted a great response here.

 

[ChipEaterMan]

Why don't you post the last hand of the tourney?
with the hand converter

 

[Scrover]

like opening 42s from utg & cbetting over 1/2 pot on a QQ4 into a 20bb stack holding AQ?

I doubted the guy could/would fold even TP there (nevermind AQ wtf?) if they'd been watching you play at all (vpip 65%, LP steals 90% in early levels)... open-limping in when not raising, etc. etc. Obv. its cuz of the huge edge I'm guessing.

wizzim posted a great response here.

I understand totally what you are getting to. Post flop though, I am not so laggy. AF will be a bit high there too (so surprised I was raising over half the pots), but I don't raise a bet postflop unless I usually have the goods it is the bubble. If you say what you mean, then I think I will check out the hand histories and see what I did wrong.

Now I am confused. I think I need more clarification on exactly what you are trying to point out. But I do appreciate the posts you are doing to help.

The raises were because I could c-bet every time and take the pot away a lot and my postflop edge (iggy influenced me as well).

 

[Arjonius]

I actually believe someone would fold top two on a paired board like that to me.

It matters what this particular opponent will do, not what someone (presumably someone else) did in some other hand, even if it was a similar situation.

Also, if he had called with AQ, would you still have posted this hand?

 

[Scrover]

It matters what this particular opponent will do, not what someone (presumably someone else) did in some other hand, even if it was a similar situation.

Also, if he had called with AQ, would you still have posted this hand?

Probably so actually. Then I could see what I shouldn't have done (which was the shove in everyone's opinion) and alternative lines I could have took.

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

Name me one hand I could be realistically value betting there that couldn't beat top two pair. AJ is about the only hand I can think of that would do that for value. With top pair, you'd just call the river praying you're good and with a hand like AJ, most people would raise the river. Any other hands and you've been beaten. So I've almost polarized myself.

I think the error in your thinking is that your line looks like a value bet. raising effectively ~2100 when he bets 120 on the river in a 800 pot looks like bluffing with brute force to me. A value bet would look something like 600-800, I think.

What could he have folded to you? Who knows. maybe a hand like Q9 or JT. But definitely not AK, AQ, AJ or probably any Ace for that matter.

 

[WiZZiM]

i'm not even sure why we're talking about AQ here? we can pretty much discount that because of the preflop action. he could limp that strong probably, but we can discount it a bit i would think.

this line from villian is usually really weak, so raise the flop, a 'one and done type' play if you take this line. or call, and bet if he checks is fine too. Both plays are profitable most likely, you win a slightly smaller pot, but with far less risk and we don't have to put half our stack in to make it happen!

 

[Arjonius]

Probably so actually. Then I could see what I shouldn't have done (which was the shove in everyone's opinion) and alternative lines I could have took.

What about raising the flop when he weak leads? You say you were planning to bluff the turn or river if something suitable came. So why not the flop instead, which has an A and a Q? And what cards were you going to bluff later? Doesn't how good or bad your plan is at least depend on how many cards can come that are bluffable?