$Freeroll NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: KK, better 3bet pre flop or all in?

[jaworek1405]

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 30/60 Blinds (8 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

UTG (t1,640)
UTG+1 (t2,561)
MP1 (t1,821)
MP2 (t3,025)
CO (t2,765)
Button (t1,705)
SB (t1,440)
Hero (BB) (t3,428)

Hero's M: 38.09

Preflop: Hero is BB with

,

5 folds, Button raises t130, SB calls t100, Hero raises t3,368 (All-In), Button calls t1,575 (All-In), 1 fold

Flop: (t3,540)

,

,

(2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (t3,540)

(2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t3,540)

(2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: t3,540

Results below:

Spoiler

Button had A

, K

(two pair, Aces and fours).
Hero had K

, K

(two pair, Kings and fours).
Outcome: Button won t3,540

Hello guys. It was CC freeroll, 69 players in tournament. I didn't win this hand and I have a question. If better here is some 3bet pre flop and play for about 1/2 on the flop and on the turn? Then opponent should fold his AK on this board and I would win some chips.

 

[RUNRRUNRTO]

You could have done a stop and go here as well... You guys are deep stacked. Instead of jamming preflop, just 4 bet-isolate. No ace comes on the flop then PnJ Peanut butter n JAM it!

 

[doomasiggy]

Some very bad thinking in this thread. We aren't trying to get folds, we have the second nut hand preflop hand, we're trying to get value. Jamming our stack is bad because it makes us miss value from worse hands, not because it means he won't fold AK postflop.

 

[AtiFCOD]

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 30/60 Blinds (8 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

UTG (t1,640)
UTG+1 (t2,561)
MP1 (t1,821)
MP2 (t3,025)
CO (t2,765)
Button (t1,705)
SB (t1,440)
Hero (BB) (t3,428)

Hero's M: 38.09

Preflop: Hero is BB with

,

5 folds, Button raises t130, SB calls t100, Hero raises t3,368 (All-In), Button calls t1,575 (All-In), 1 fold

Flop: (t3,540)

,

,

(2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (t3,540)

(2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t3,540)

(2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: t3,540

Results below:

Spoiler

Button had A

, K

(two pair, Aces and fours).
Hero had K

, K

(two pair, Kings and fours).
Outcome: Button won t3,540

Hello guys. It was CC freeroll, 69 players in tournament. I didn't win this hand and I have a question. If better here is some 3bet pre flop and play for about 1/2 on the flop and on the turn? Then opponent should fold his AK on this board and I would win some chips.

It depends on the player. If you think it's possible that he calls preflop your allin (what happened here) it's ok. Your point is that all chips get on the table preflop since only AA beats you and you are way ahead against all other hands.
But at buy-in tournaments, there's very lil chance that anybody would call your allin. You basically told that you have AA/KK with that move. So at most cases 3-bet is better.

 

[RamdeeBen]

Definitely just 3b pre, we don't mind seeing 3 way with 20-30bb effective stack sizes or getting 4b shoved on. It also gives room for BTN to 4B shove on us lighter given there is a caller in the pot, our play could look like a squeeze. By shoving we lose value from a ton of hands and even get folds from worse pairs who will stack of on these flops or 4B shove pre with those hands that don't play well multiway, which is a great result. Of course, TT-AA will probs 4b shove, along with AQs, AK pre too which is fine, but more importantly it leaves them open to 4B shove any pairs and those AJ hands to which will likely fold to our 3B shove. Even if they call with hands like AT,AJ,AQ etc and the flop is T/J/Q high, we will likely get their stack.

We want to keep his range as wide as possible pre and post flop, all of which we take away from him by shoving.

 

[spiderman637]

Come on, you dont go allin preflop so early in a tournament with nothing less than AA...(though u may feel like arguing with me on that).
Making a 3x bet and then making a cbets would have been a better option there....

Allin preflop withh KK would be justiful when u are in late stages of the tourney...
Another scenario is when u r shortstacked ie less than 15 BB at any stage of the game...

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

3 bet preflop and look to get it in on the flop or turn when there is no ace
this is not to try and protect against the ace, but to extract value from worse hands. It just so happens in this particular scenario it would have also prevented you from getting rivered, but that is not the rationale behind 3betting instead of jamming preflop.

MUST EXTRACT VALUE FROM MONSTERS!!!

 

[abzdolc]

cooler any way, both of u have nuts in pre-flop, but in distance, there will not be so many A - rivers, thats why, I think u did right move

 

[DonV73]

Well, you always want to get it all in preflop with KK, so if you had a good reason/read for doing it this way, you made the right decision I think. If he is a loose caller then you are ahead most of the time. Against a regular I would not have done that since he would call you will only the best hand. So normally, I would 3bet him preflop. villain still had 26bb left after that initial raise, so he could still fold.

 

[ravpl]

I would go for 3 bet. If he does 4bet I go all-in. On the flop I raise half - 70% pot.
on the other hand, we have the second strongest hand due to the fact that it is a freeroll could afford all-in. However, the first decision is to me better. On the flop comes Ace u should fold (or c-bet/fold) do not loose all chips. There no aces he probably fold and you win.

 

[sryImPro]

well it wasn't push or fold situation, and yes, you should 3bet there so it could all end up, probably, with you winning this hand on the flop with 1/2 pot bet...but, as we all know there's no guarantee...

 

[etherghost]

Some very bad thinking in this thread. We aren't trying to get folds, we have the second nut hand preflop hand, we're trying to get value. Jamming our stack is bad because it makes us miss value from worse hands, not because it means he won't fold AK postflop.

+1

Pre flop 3xBB and bet for value post flop. If your kings are holding on turn keep betting for value. If villain keeps calling and river shows A, slow your play unless you have enough chips for C-bet. In this situation, if you get re-raised, at least you have a way out. If that's the case, I usually open fold to indicate I wasn't fooling around. Allows me to strengthen my table image.