$Freeroll NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: Is the call on the turn doable? And the action on the river?

demesquita

demesquita

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$Freeroll NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: Is the call on the turn doable? And the action on the river?

I know the raise preflop was wild, but I did get to see my deuces set. But after that the whole thing went downhill... And I'm still unsure if my fold was the best decision.
I hide the names since this was just now at the Friday Silver member's Freeroll.
Opinions, please?

pokerstars, Hold'em No Limit - 10/20 - 8 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 3,000 (150 bb)
UTG+1: 3,000 (150 bb)
MP: 3,000 (150 bb)
MP+1: 3,000 (150 bb)
CO (Hero): 3,000 (150 bb)
BU: 3,000 (150 bb)
SB: 3,000 (150 bb)
BB: 3,000 (150 bb)

Pre-Flop: (30) Hero is CO with 2 2
4 players fold, Hero raises to 60, BTN calls 60, 2 players fold

Flop: (150) J 2 K (2 players)
Hero bets 75, BTN calls 75

Turn: (300) Q (2 players)
Hero bets 140, BTN raises to 500, Hero calls 360

River: (1,300) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets 900, CO (Hero) folds

Total pot: 1,300
BU wins 1,300
 
E

eetenor

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I know the raise preflop was wild, but I did get to see my deuces set. But after that the whole thing went downhill... And I'm still unsure if my fold was the best decision.
I hide the names since this was just now at the Friday Silver member's Freeroll.
Opinions, please?

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - 10/20 - 8 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 3,000 (150 bb)
UTG+1: 3,000 (150 bb)
MP: 3,000 (150 bb)
MP+1: 3,000 (150 bb)
CO (Hero): 3,000 (150 bb)
BU: 3,000 (150 bb)
SB: 3,000 (150 bb)
BB: 3,000 (150 bb)

Pre-Flop: (30) Hero is CO with 2 2
4 players fold, Hero raises to 60, BTN calls 60, 2 players fold

Flop: (150) J 2 K (2 players)
Hero bets 75, BTN calls 75

Turn: (300) Q (2 players)
Hero bets 140, BTN raises to 500, Hero calls 360

River: (1,300) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets 900, CO (Hero) folds

Total pot: 1,300
BU wins 1,300


Thank U 4 Posting

So the question is would our V bet 2 pairs this way? If so than we have to call the river.

Hope this helps
:):)
 
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300HPGOD

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Its not my play but I dont mind raising there for the amount you did, nothing wrong with it. Its a tough hand to play post flop other than folding to aggression but nothing against raising it imo. On the flop your sizing is fine but I would not go smaller there as your opponent has a good chance of having some piece of that board and will call there a lot with inferior hands plus this is a freeroll where people usually fold a little less anyway.

On the turn I disagree with your bet sizing because I am thinking the same way I did on the flop. Good chance the villain has something they will call here with so I would be looking to get value. Plus the board is connected now and freeroll players like to continue with draws so I think a bet here of 160-200 is a good sizing. When we face the raise there is a chance we are behind here but I dont think there are any bigger sets than our so this is either A10 or some broadway combo making two pair. Must better chance it is two pair so I would be at least calling the raise but probably better to raise there so we can ensure a less than pots size shove on the river. I am not folding the set here given the other cards to make a bigger set probably would have re raised pre so I am going with this hand and would be planning the best way to get them in the middle by hands end.

The river card is a good card in my opinion as we just wouldnt want the board to pair (bigger full house possible) or to have an ace or a 10. With my plan from above I would just shove it in here. As played I would check jam this river. If we run into A10 here then we just ran into it but in a freeroll the villain will call there with 2 pair.
 
ZenGreen

ZenGreen

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whats the issue here. I would be trying to get him committed ott so Id 3bet OTT to 1475-1625 and call it off. I mean he eiher shoving over or folding OTT. BUt either way we arent letting go of a set here..
 
demesquita

demesquita

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Thank U 4 Posting

So the question is would our V bet 2 pairs this way? If so than we have to call the river.

Hope this helps
:):)

That was what went into my head the whole afternoon after the hand. And this kind of tilted me for the rest of the tournament so I wasn't able to play fully focused and got eliminated 5 blinds later. Could he do this when he just hit his second pair on the turn and should I re-raise the V right there? Should I check-shove on the river?

Its not my play but I dont mind raising there for the amount you did, nothing wrong with it. Its a tough hand to play post flop other than folding to aggression but nothing against raising it imo. On the flop your sizing is fine but I would not go smaller there as your opponent has a good chance of having some piece of that board and will call there a lot with inferior hands plus this is a freeroll where people usually fold a little less anyway.

On the turn I disagree with your bet sizing because I am thinking the same way I did on the flop. Good chance the villain has something they will call here with so I would be looking to get value. Plus the board is connected now and freeroll players like to continue with draws so I think a bet here of 160-200 is a good sizing. When we face the raise there is a chance we are behind here but I dont think there are any bigger sets than our so this is either A10 or some broadway combo making two pair. Must better chance it is two pair so I would be at least calling the raise but probably better to raise there so we can ensure a less than pots size shove on the river. I am not folding the set here given the other cards to make a bigger set probably would have re raised pre so I am going with this hand and would be planning the best way to get them in the middle by hands end.

The river card is a good card in my opinion as we just wouldnt want the board to pair (bigger full house possible) or to have an ace or a 10. With my plan from above I would just shove it in here. As played I would check jam this river. If we run into A10 here then we just ran into it but in a freeroll the villain will call there with 2 pair.

You're plobably right all the way through. The only thing that kept me from that shove river was that, although it is a Freeroll, it is the Silver CC freeroll so I would think our readers DO try to improve their game by reading and posting here, so that COULD be a movement from a serious player instead of the general fishes that plays other freerolls.
Since this was my first freeroll of silver members here, and that was the very first hand of the tournament (you can see the stacks were all full), I ask... do the CC Freerolls usually have a "better" player quality than the other freerolls, or is just a huge tank of fiches just as any other freeroll that usually have 1000+ starting players we see everywhere? Does CC players tend to be more smart-playing or not? From what I saw after this hand, they're mixed up but I couldn't pay too much attention since I was still tilted from this hand.

Thanks for the feedback, guys!
 
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fundiver199

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I am not folding a set here and certainly not in a freeroll. The straights, that got there, were only gutshots on the flop, and he could be raising you with two pair, or he could be on a wild bluff. If you call and lose, you still have around half your chips left.
 
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300HPGOD

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I ask... do the CC Freerolls usually have a "better" player quality than the other freerolls, or is just a huge tank of fiches just as any other freeroll that usually have 1000+ starting players we see everywhere? Does CC players tend to be more smart-playing or not? From what I saw after this hand, they're mixed up but I couldn't pay too much attention since I was still tilted from this hand.

Thanks for the feedback, guys!


Yes, CC freerolls have better players than your average freeroll by a long shot but there are still players that make "freeroll player moves" so it is a mixed bag. There are a lot of good players in the freeroll club but dont discount the fact that there are still some that are happy to get all in early and light and overvalue some hands. The fun thing about the freeroll club (at least on the US facing side) is you play against the same players so you start to know their tendencies in a short amount of time and they know your tendencies. It helps you to range better but again they know you too. Its a fun cat and mouse game.
 
demesquita

demesquita

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Thank you for the feedback, guys.
I probably laid down the best hand then.
Better luck next time. ;)
 
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CSLysander

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Now, not saying this is what happened, as I under represent some of my hands, but not this much. Looking at the play seems to be more of an overbet to scare you off as a bluff. The A10 would have been a good 3 bet, as would KQ, though not saying they would have. This seems more like a scare tactic than an actual having a hand that beats you.
 
EnigmaTTO

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I think raising the deuces is maybe a bit out of line pre-flop but definitely not super crazy and maybe better than limping cause some of the time everyone folds and the rest of the time you see the flop knowing that you're basically just gonna give up if you miss and potentially win lots of chips if you hit.

On the flop I agree with what's been said before about the sizing being good, but not going smaller than that since then you're really just giving draws a good price for no reason.

On the turn I feel like I would want to bet bigger, around 200. I think your sizing is really just giving too good of a price to the many draws that are possible now that would beat you. Plus, stacks are deep enough that I think if villain has anything worth continuing with, the extra 60 chips probably isn't gonna scare them away. When villain raises here I think that while some of the time he's hit his straight with AT or maybe even T9, a lot of the time he's turned two pair with KQ or QJ. I think I'm gonna be good enough of the time where I'm calling with the intention of calling most rivers and maybe even jamming.

At the river, I think this is probably too tight of a fold. I think the 4h is a good card for you since it's we're not more worried about straights than we already are. I think this is definitely at least a call. Maybe even a shove like someone said before.
 
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fundiver199

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As I said already, I am not folding a set on this runout and with this action, but I am also not raising the river as suggested by some. I do think, the straights are a real concern here and make up a decent chunk of his range. In a freeroll I think, AT get called on BTN against a CO open a very high percentage of the time, where it might get 3-bet more often in a higher buyin. Someone casually calling with T9o is certainly also possible in a freeroll or low buyin MTT.

The thing about straights is, they are always unblocked by the board. So there is potentially 16 combos of each straight, but there is noly 9 combos of each two pair. To raise we need to be good more than 50% of the time when called. And I just dont think, they have enough two pair combos compared to straight combos, that this is going to be the case.
 
demesquita

demesquita

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As I said already, I am not folding a set on this runout and with this action, but I am also not raising the river as suggested by some. I do think, the straights are a real concern here and make up a decent chunk of his range. In a freeroll I think, AT get called on BTN against a CO open a very high percentage of the time, where it might get 3-bet more often in a higher buyin. Someone casually calling with T9o is certainly also possible in a freeroll or low buyin MTT.

The thing about straights is, they are always unblocked by the board. So there is potentially 16 combos of each straight, but there is noly 9 combos of each two pair. To raise we need to be good more than 50% of the time when called. And I just dont think, they have enough two pair combos compared to straight combos, that this is going to be the case.


I really appreciate all your inputs, specially fundiver199. Your feedbacks are very appreciated since I learn a lot with them. From all your inputs, guys! Thanks!
I'm already learning so much, by this hand's analysis alone since the very same thing happened on another Freeroll yesterday and this time my set of 5 faced a board with QJ5 rainbow, turn a K... villain became aggressive on the turn (river blank) but in the end the guy just had an K8. I doubled up.

Thank you all! :D
 
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