First Hand Rockets, Opinions wanted

[protoskull]

$40 buy in freezeout at my local snooker club which recently started poker tourneys. 15 entrants.

Very first hand.
Starting stacks are 5000, blinds are 50/100
My holding: Ad Ah

UTG raises 200.
Me UTG+1 reraises 1000
Table folds, villain calls.

Pot: 2150

Flop comes:
2s 4s 8s

Villain checks
I raise 1000
Villain comes over the top All-In

I start to think...

Obviously no read on the guy, never played with him before. After his preflop call I'm thinking a high pair. After his all-in I figure most likely with a spade. What should I do here?

I'll post what happened once I've got a few responses.

Thanks in advance.

 

[-PotCommited88-]

this one is so hard to gauge, espically first hand. I would have to say that he is putting the pressure on you with possibly top pair and a draw... maybe even an overpair like 10's with a spade. interested to see how this hand turned out for you

 

[Alfoldem]

hmmm

the check - re-raise all in could easily mean villain flopped a flush, overpair with a spade aint good news for you either and maybe even a set to look out for!
You still have more than half your stack left if you fold.
No reads either, id fold, yeah you have pockets but they aint invincible and there's nothing worse than going out first hand!

 

[OzExorcist]

I'd be suspicious as hell, but I'd probably still let the hand go and wait until I had a better read

 

[aarogorn_]

Agressive play like this without time for a good read has to thought of as dangerous for you. There was 2 straight draws on the board and a flush. Do you want to risk your tournament on an overpair?

 

[KMC1828]

since its 1st hand, with all that action, i have to put him on an over pair with a good flush draw. maybe JJ-KK.

especially after your big reraise.

i think anything other than an over pair here is a lucky donk move by his part.

 

[dj11]

With that flop, I'd call in a heartbeat. If he did better than hitting one pair, then you are doomed anyway, cause him calling a large raise up front suggests he is donk deluxe, and will eventually kill you with that lucky catch later. You are probably so far ahead here, his head should be spinning.

 

[protoskull]

You are spot on dj11. I called, we flipped and he showed Qh Td, needing runner runner. A bold bluff.

Nice double up but I probably shouldn't have called, given the responses here. I cant imagine why he called my preflop reraise, surely after his UTG move was reraised he should fold. Not being results oriented here though, so next time I will fold in this same situation... probably.

 

[Ronaldadio]

Always a bad starting hand with a bad flop IMO. I mean for first hand without reads, obviously I`d take AA everytime

U start to think in this kind of position with no read would u be better pushing all in pre flop???

I know its a bit of a donkey move, but at least u know preflop u r a 5-1 fav minimum. Be happy to win blinds and his 200 chips?

I know everyone will say u want to make as much as u can, etc, but after the flop u r in the dark this early in the tourny.

On to the specific hand.

I think the reason u had to call was down to the amount of money u had invested in the pot. I probably would have done this...

My holding: Ad Ah

UTG raises 200.
Me UTG+1 reraises 1000 I would have reraised to 400, making it 200 for him to call. U want action?
Table folds, villain calls.

Pot: 2150 Pot would then have been 1350 (I think) I know a lot of the top players suggest keeping the pot smaller and managable.

Flop comes:
2s 4s 8s

Villain checks
I raise 1000 Raise here 1000 - I agree, almost pot size bet.
Villain comes over the top All-In At this stage you have less in pot, so it gives u the option to fold.
Accepting the fact that u don`t have a read on him, his all in to me genrally would suggest

1. He`s hit a set and does not like the flush draw. (30%)
2. He has As in his hand and knows he has outs if u call. (40%)
3. A8s - so he now has top pair with top kicker - again protecting it. (10%)
4. He has a smaller flush (10%)
5. Bluff (10%)

I`m going by the way he bet it. So, looking at the above what do u beat or what are u ahead of? This is the way I try to work out, right or wrong. Remembering u can`t bluff him now!!!

U beat a bluff = +10% he has a smaller flush - 10% = 0 U beat A high + 10% = 10% nut flush draw + 25% = 35% set - 30% = 5% + to call.

So, using my model that is similar to Sklansky/ Harrington model, u would call (a long way of getting to that??? )

However, Sklansky/ Harrington would suggest u stay away from close calls if u r a better player.

When I first read the model I though "never in a million years would I be able to do that on line or live" Funnily enough, it becomes quite easy when you get used to it.

So, I now get to the decision I would have made = FOLD !!!

 

[wasda]

I would have had to fold there. I'd put him on JJ-KK with a spade.

 

[alan1983]

wasda if he only has one spade, then youre 65% to win the hand, why would you fold.

Any hand with the ace of spades (which you dont have) will make that move, so callings good most of the time here i think.

Of course you could land on a made flush too, but id say thats the less likely option. PLaying it safe for first hand if you feel what you lost wont hamper you isnt a bad option either

Id never have thought it a total bluff though, maybe he thought ur flop bet was trying 2 get rid of him so figured you were scared from the spades.

Nice try by villain i guess, but bad timing for it, and good call.

 

[bhanacik]

you definately don't fold the hand if you put him on a spade draw and an overpair like KK, you're ahead and you should trust your read of the situation

my thoughts are in agreeance with your read - spade draw and an overpair from KK on down to JJ - easy call in my opinion

 

[jeffred1111]

He has face cards 100% of the time in this situation, so the straight possiblities are next to zero. This leaves us with QJs, KJs, KQs, AKs, AQs, AJs and maybe JTs to a made flush. Very, very, very narrow, so don't be worried about it. Two pairs is also very unlikely, as is a set: would you call a 1000 bet that screams AA in the first hand after being UTG ? Very unlikely too. So we're basically looking at TT and up with a spade or a hand that whiffed completly. We're a huge favorite against a bluff or a stupid hand like A8, A4, A2 and 65% favorite against a semi-bluff (flush draw), what do you want more ? Had the bet been called and a spade hits, I let it go, but not on the flop. Opponent's hand range is dominated by us right now, we cannot let this opportunity go. Plus, if we end up losing, so what? We lose AI the first hand, we're free to go play snooker and hit it with girls instead of bubbling out after 4 hours of donkament: WIN, WIN situation

I call 10,000% of the time: this is a semi-bluff or a pure bluff more than you think.

 

[pigpen02]

On line, I would think this is a call. Live, first ever tournament, snooker club, I am even more sure this is a call. You will forever know how this guy plays.:icon_porc

 

[Mrlova]

Call, whats telling you your behind. He raised preflop and now he reraised on the flop. At best he flopped a set but you have no clue. You already have half your money in the pot and there is nothing telling you your behind.

However, if you fold, you have plently of time to get back into the game. So a fold could aslo be argued to be the right play. I personally would call and if you lose ohwell there's always the next tournament. But honestly, you have to ask yourself, what can beat you in this situation. And the only thing I can see beating you is trips.

Good luck at your tables.

BTW, glad to see you made the call. It was a quick double up but next time you might not be that lucky

 

[Mrlova]

On line, I would think this is a call. Live, first ever tournament, snooker club, I am even more sure this is a call. You will forever know how this guy plays.:icon_porc

I think this is a great line. Online, no one will remember how you play are what cards you called an all in with. However, live, faces are a lot easier to remember so you have to watch your image when you showdown cards. In this case this if anything helped your image, you showed down a monster.

Good luck at your tables